Warning: This post contains spoilers for "The White Lotus."
Episode Five of "The White Lotus" is when everything changed for Zack Stoller. "The White Lotus" went from being a TV show to an all-out obsession.
Stoller, 35, tells TODAY.com he had seen the episode a few days before, and was listening to it in the background while his mother caught up on the HBO Max show. The scene where Daphne (Meghann Fahy) shows Harper (Aubrey Plaza) a photo of her kids while talking about her trainer came on, and everything clicked.
"I had a total revelation through listening to the episode, and I was like, 'Oh, holy s---,'" Stoller says. "Those kids are probably the trainer's kids and Daphne was alluding to it."
Stoller says he called his sister to ask if she caught it, and she suggested there could be a double meaning to it. "I was like, 'Alright, I gotta post to TikTok," he says. "And then I posted and all of a sudden it just took off and flew away."
Stoller's video has been viewed more than 300,000 times and has hundreds of comments from fans divulging their theories for the ending of Season Two — and that's just the tip of the iceberg. TikToks tagged with #whitelotus have been viewed more than 589 million times.
"People were just so into it and there were so many comments, and it just was so exciting seeing everyone's different theories flying in that I just had to keep going," Stoller says.
Stoller has posted other videos with his own original theories, and also replying to comments on his videos of other people's guesses. He tells TODAY.com he had not even thought that Tanya's husband, Greg, could be the cowboy Quentin had fallen in love with 30 years ago until someone commented with their hunch.
“For some reason, it seems like the most passionate group of people ever."
Zack Stoller on the TikTok White Lotus community
"It seems like people are just really involved in figuring this out together, so it's been really fun and a positive experience that everyone's kind of joining in on this fictional mystery together in a fun way," he explains.
"For some reason, it seems like the most passionate group of people ever," Stoller says of the "White Lotus" community on TikTok. "If we could just harness this energy and get everyone to vote, or rally them around politics, I think the country would be better because everyone just seems so riled up and everyone’s so together on it."
Examining the art in 'The White Lotus'
Amelia Marran-Baden had been noticing the art on the walls throughout Season Two, but it was a scene in Episode Four in which Harper lies on a bed in a yellow nightgown that got her thinking critically.
"I've always been very interested in the figure of the reclining nude and how different artists throughout time have used that trope as a way to communicate something about the person or the time that we're living in," Marran-Baden, a 28-year-old from New York, tells TODAY.com.
"And so when I saw that, I was like, 'OK, this has to be the parallel between her on the bed lying down, and then the reclining nude in the background in that painting. There's no way this was this was a coincidence or accidental.
"So then I really just started digging and going back and looking at the show more closely, and I found this treasure trove of paintings and images that just kind of, unlocked Pandora's box," she continues with a laugh.
Marran-Baden has a degree in art history and began researching the artwork throughout the season, posting TikToks about what they could mean for the characters. She says she uses Google reverse image search to find the paintings. If that doesn't work, she does a more extensive deep dive until she finds the museum that the artwork is housed in.
As for Harper's yellow nightgown scene? Marran-Baden posits the painting behind her is of Tarquin and Lucretia. According to Roman history, Tarquin rapes Lucretia after he threatens to kill her if he rejects his advances, and she ultimately dies by suicide. Marran-Baden's video explaining the significance has more than 650,000 views.
After the success of that video, she's posted more than two dozen TikToks uncovering possible connections between the artwork and the scenes they appear in, like how the legend of Saint Sebastian might shed light on Albie and Lucia's relationship.
"It’s almost like being in a classroom again,”
Amelia Marran-Baden
"What's been so fun for me is spending my free time looking into all these things, and then people's comments are so insightful. Not only do they remind me of things or bring things to my attention that I didn't even think about, but I think it's just it's almost like being in a classroom again," she says. "To have this kind of democratic medium where everyone can share their thoughts — it's just been very special for me to learn from the people who are commenting on the TikToks."
"So it's been, honestly, such a gift," Marran-Baden shares.
'People are picking up on other clues'
Episode Five was also significant for Lisa Clift, a user experience researcher from L.A.
Clift, 33, tells TODAY.com she had never posted TikToks about TV shows before, but she had an "inception moment" where she figured everything out and had to share. She didn't expect the video — which took the form of a casual conversation with her husband — to show up.
"It's actually so fun and addicting to see like, 'Oh my God, there are other people who are just nerding out so hard about the show,'" she says. "People are picking up on other clues that I hadn't seen, or people commenting and supporting evidence, or referencing other episodes or interviews that happened outside of the show. I think that's the most fun part of it."
Clift later posted a video analyzing the cards the tarot reader pulls for Tanya (Jennifer Coolidge) in Episode Three. Clift says a commenter revealed what the reader says to Tanya in Italian. According to the TikTok commenter and other Reddit users, she tells Tanya, "La pazza ti portera al suicidio," which they say translates to, "The crazy woman will bring you to suicide."
"'The White Lotus' is meticulously intentional with details. And it makes it fun because, you know, it left those clues out there for a reason," Clift says.
Sofia Sullivan says the thoughtfulness and intentionality of "The White Lotus" also brought her to begin posting her theories about the show on TikTok.
"A lot of TV nowadays is like very in your face, and 'White Lotus' leaves a lot to the imagination and room for conspiracy theories," Sullivan tells TODAY.com. "So after every episode, I was like, 'What does that painting mean? What did that like one interaction mean?' and I would go down these rabbit holes and so I needed an outlet."
Sullivan, 29, added she would also post theories on TikTok about other TV shows and even books she has read, like "Verity" by Colleen Hoover (who also has a giant TikTok following).
"I love cliffhangers and I love open-ended symbolism," she says. "If another show comes out that has like this room for rabbit holes and conspiracy theories, I think I definitely would just because it's fun."
TikTokers give their running theories for the finale in Episode 7
"Your guess is as good as mine. I'm honestly overwhelmed with all the different routes you can take," Stoller says of the ending, adding he thinks Tanya will survive. "My guess is that Tanya is going to like rise like a phoenix. Somehow she's going to fall upwards into like, taking down the guys that are trying to take her down."
Clift also thinks Tanya's storyline is a red herring.
"There's been a lot of clues that she's opening her eyes and becoming more aware and that everybody underestimates her," Clift says. "If there's any continuation of Season One's themes it's like, the wealthy folks don't suffer the consequences."
Marran-Baden says is ready to see some heroines rather than heroes as well.
"What I think has been communicated, to me, throughout all of this, is that (series creator) Mike White is taking these like extremely dramatic, operatic stories from classical antiquity and the Renaissance and manipulating them and flipping them on on their heads to give power to people who didn't necessarily have power," she says.
Sullivan thinks Cameron (Theo James) could be a killer by the seventh episode.
"I think Jack Lacy, the actor who plays Shane in Season One, and Cameron this season serve a similar purpose," Sullivan says, in that they're "catalysts."
"They're kind of insufferable and in their own little world — these privileged people who just are never satisfied. In the last season, that's kind of what drove Armand crazy ultimately led to like his demise," Sullivan thinks. "I think Cameron serves a similar purpose in this season."
Stoller did question if everyone on TikTok has just taken the their theories a bit too far, trawling for clues in every shot.
"I'm wondering if we're driving ourselves crazy. Are the creators and the people on this production that brilliant that every single piece of art and every single sentence mean something?"
Clift has faith in a satisfying ending. "The writers of the show, are just chef’s kiss, so I have no doubt that it’s gonna end just like, mind-blowing."
We'll finally find out who all are in the body bags once and for all when the final episode of Season Two of "The White Lotus" premieres at 9 p.m. on Dec. 11 on HBO.
