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updated 1/29/2013 10:01:55 AM ET 2013-01-29T15:01:55

THE ED SHOW with ED SCHULTZ
January 28, 2013

Guests: Robert Menendez, Leo Gerard, Barney Frank, Jesse Jackson, Jonathan Alter

ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW from New York.

Some Republicans in demographic denial are buckling to common sense on
immigration reform. I don`t trust them.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: This will be the year --

SCHULTZ (voice-over): The immigration overhaul is on. Republicans
look like they`re cooperating, but can Democrats trust them?

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: In Espanol, vamonos!

SCHULTZ: Senator Bob Menendez of New Jersey is here with the details.

Plus, labor reaction with Leo Gerard of the Steelworkers.

In center left America tonight, Paul Ryan broadsides the president.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN: He`s thinking more of a conquest than
political compromise.

SCHULTZ: Former Congressman Barney Frank on the new Republican
messaging on failed conservative ideas.

Plus, Reverend Jesse Jackson on the latest Republican effort to
disenfranchise minority voters.

And call the whambulance. The Obama-Clinton interview has righties
spewing conspiracy theory nonsense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d like to know how -- did she pass out and hit
her head? Was she pushed?

SCHULTZ: I`ll get to the bottom of all the whining with Jonathan
Alter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was no follow-up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us tonight, folks. Thanks for
watching.

Republicans are waking up to the realities of a center left country.
They need to partner with the Democrats on immigration reform, or basically
be left in the dust. This is just one of many issues.

Senator Chuck Schumer New York led seven of his Senate colleagues in
announcing a bipartisan plan for immigration reform today. They want the
proposal to be pushed through the Senate this spring.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHUMER: For the first time ever, there is more political risk in
opposing immigration reform than in supporting it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The plan is a common sense approach to give 11 million
undocumented workers in this country a chance to become citizens without
fearing deportation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), NEW YORK: If you got up this morning and
had fruits for breakfast, it was probably picked by the bent back of an
immigrant worker. If you slept in a hotel or motel of the nation, you
probably had your room done by an immigrant worker.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The problem is, in the past, the Republicans have screamed
amnesty whenever immigration reform comes up.

This process is not automatic amnesty. The senators are calling it a
tough but fair path to citizenship.

An undocumented worker must complete a background check and be clear
of any felony charges. They must pay any fines and any back taxes. There
is a requirement to learn English and American civics over the course of
the next several years.

After passing these benchmarks, an undocumented immigrant will be
granted legal working status. They will be issued green cards on the
condition of the border being made secure.

I`m a little confused on exactly how that works. We`ll get to it in a
moment.

Reform advocates hope the involvement of Republican Senator Marco
Rubio will bring nervous conservatives along.

In the House, Speaker John Boehner says he remains optimistic in
legislation moving forward.

Republican Congressman Mario Diaz-Balart says he`s been working with
Democrats in his chamber.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARIO DIAZ-BALART (R), FLORIDA: We`ve seen that the speaker has
said he wants to get it done. We`ve seen what the minority leader says
that they want to get it done.

Here is the good news. A group of us have been ready for years.
We`ve worked out most of the complicated details. You know the devil is in
the detail. Well, we`ve dealt with that devil. Now, it`s an issue of just
filing legislation and hopefully get it passed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Yes, Republicans everywhere are talking sensibly about the
importance of getting 11 million people out of the shadows.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: We have been too content for too long to allow individuals to
mow our lawn, serve our food, clean our homes, and even watch our children
while not affording them any of the benefits that make our country so
great.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And here is why senators like John McCain understand the
need for Republicans to focus on immigration reform.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: Elections. Elections. The Republican Party is losing the
support of our Hispanic citizens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Think about that. It`s not about people in this country who
are living a life, trying to be an American. It`s about elections.

John McCain has a very clear understanding of the Republican
demographic problem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: I`ll give you a little straight talk. Look at the last
election. Look at the last election. We are losing dramatically the
Hispanic vote, which we think should be ours for a variety of reasons. And
we`ve got to understand that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: But if John McCain wants to understand why the Republican
Party faces this problem, he might want to watch some of his own campaign
ads back from 2010.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: Have we got the right plan?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The plan is perfect. You bring troops, state,
county, and local law enforcement together.

MCCAIN: And complete the dang fence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will work this time. Senator, you`re one of
us.

MCCAIN: I`m John McCain and I approve this message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, politics does not exist in a vacuum. There are
consequences to policies like self-deportation and killing the DREAM Act to
keep children of undocumented immigrants in the United States. Senator
Dick Durbin of Illinois is intent on keeping a DREAM Act component as part
of a new legislation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: The DREAM Act is going to be an
integral part of comprehensive immigration reform. The DREAM Act will give
to these young people the chance that they have been dreaming of, begging
for, pleading to give an opportunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: I`m sure Senator Durbin is happy to have his colleagues on
board this time around.

But when the DREAM Act was voted down in the Senate in 2010, one of
the no votes was this man, who was up there on the stage today, Senator
John McCain. Another no vote was Senator Lindsey Graham, who is part of
this group of eight, who is also a proponent of this new Senate plan.
These senators see how their votes and attitudes have damaged the
Republican Party in the image business, but the voices of dissent are still
out there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO HOST: I don`t know that there is any stopping
this. It`s up to me and FOX News. And I don`t think FOX News is that
invested in this, but there is not -- I don`t think there is any Republican
opposition to this of any majority consequence or size. We`ll have to wait
and see and find out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, Rush doesn`t have to run for election, does he? Never
underestimate the desire of conservative lawmakers to please the Drugster.

Congressman Lamar Smith of Texas has already attacked the Senate plan
with a dreaded "A" word. "By granting amnesty, the Senate proposal
actually compounds the problem by encouraging more illegal immigration."

The fact remains, Americans accept the need for changing our
immigration fiasco, there is no reason for a holdup. It`s time for
millions of undocumented workers to stop living in fear, and it`s time for
Republicans to stop living in fear of the most extreme elements of their
own party.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think.

Tonight`s question: do you trust Republicans on immigration reform?
Texas A for yes, text B for no, to 622639. Our blog is there for you for a
comment at Ed.MSNBC.com. We`ll bring you the results later on in the
program.

Joining me tonight is one of the senators who is part of this team to
reform immigration in this country, Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey,
one of the senators involved in this proposal.

Senator, good to have you with us tonight.

MENENDEZ: Good to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: I know that you spent a lot of time and effort on this, and
I think I just -- to start with, with so much conversation I`ve had on the
radio on this, you know, I think what these 11 million undocumented workers
want is a guarantee that if they come out of the shadows, that they`re not
going to be deported. A lot of them are living in fear. I think that this
is not talked about enough.

And this is really where they are as an individual, as a worker.
They`re saying, OK, if I come out of the shadows, am I safe?

Can you answer that tonight, Senator?

MENENDEZ: Well, the answer is unless they have a criminal record,
yes, they would be safe. They would have a pending status during this
process. They`d go through a criminal background check. Of course, if
there is a criminal background, we don`t want them in this country, but the
overwhelming number of these people by far are people who came here in
pursuit of the American dream.

And so, they will have a pending status. They will be able to work
during that period of time. They`ll have to obviously pay back taxes if
they have any due, and pay future taxes. They`ll have to learn English,
which we have never required for permanent residency. We have only
required that for U.S. citizenship.

And they will have to continue to wait until those who are waiting
under the existing law and have a visa pending to be reunified with their
family in the United States, those come first. They would come later.

But yes. They would be safe.

SCHULTZ: Senator, what about those employers who hire undocumented
workers? I mean, how are we going to deal with this? And there are
hundreds of thousands of businesses across America that employee 11 million
undocumented workers. How are they going to come out of this legislation?

MENENDEZ: Well, clearly, one of the centerpieces of the principles is
that we will go after employers who employ undocumented workers. We`re
going to have a more foolproof system of verification of a person`s right
to be employed in this country as part of this process.

We`re also going to look at how do we permit those who come here under
the law to do certain jobs that maybe we cannot get in America, because I`m
ultimately for any American who wants to do any job first. But in the
absence of being able to achieve that, then how do we have those people
come here with labor protections as well. That`s part of what we`re going
to work towards.

SCHULTZ: There is a major focus on border security. I want to point
out just last year, the United States spent $18 billion on immigration
enforcement. Border crossings are at a 40-year low, there are over 21,000
border agents and six unmanned aircraft patrolling the border.

Why such a focus on border security when we`ve made so much of a
commitment since 2005 to right now?

MENENDEZ: Well, there is no question, under the Obama administration,
more efforts have been done at the border than any other time. You just
listed a whole host of them. There are many more.

The question is how do we use technology instead of personnel to
achieve a greater border security, and how do we focus our existing
resources to border crossings that are critical both for our commerce as
well as our security.

SCHULTZ: Are you confident that there is going to be enough
Republican support to get this thing done? It has failed in the past. We
really haven`t had anything in over several decades. We have gone from
three million. Now we`re up to 11 million. I think there is more than 11
million undocumented workers. I think that`s a low number. I could be
wrong on that.

But I mean, are you going to have enough Republicans to do this?
Because this is really been a strong conversation in progressive circles in
America. The progressives and liberals are really pushing for this.

MENENDEZ: Well, Ed, look, elections have consequences. And I think
our Republican colleagues woke up to the new demographic in this nation as
expressed by the election results. As I traveled the country in this last
election and in my own reelection, I said if we want to have immigration
reform, use your vote to send that message. I think that was done.

And so, the American people in poll after poll support by significant
majorities the type of reform we`re talking about. Latino voters expect
it. Democrats want it, and Republicans need it.

SCHULTZ: Senator Robert Menendez, I have to ask you one quick
question here. On the vote for the Sandy relief bill tonight, do you have
a comment on that?

MENENDEZ: Yes.

SCHULTZ: It`s been a long fight. Is this really going to help people
in relief?

MENENDEZ: Absolutely, Ed. I mean, it`s delayed 91 days. We should
have never had to wait that long.

This is the United States of America. It means we respond to our
fellow Americans in times of crisis and emergency and disaster.

But relief is finally on the way. And now, we`re just going to make
sure that after the president signs this bill, which I know he`ll do in
short order, that we get Secretary Donovan, who was named by the president
to oversee this relief to make sure that money comes out to our citizens,
to our homeowners, to our businesses, to our communities.

SCHULTZ: Are you -- a majority of Republicans voted against it. Your
thoughts on that.

MENENDEZ: You know, I said on the senate floor today that never in
two decades have we offset emergency disaster relief, and that I will judge
my colleagues in any future set of circumstances by how they treated the
Northeast.

SCHULTZ: OK.

MENENDEZ: And so I`m going to remember the vote tally.

SCHULTZ: Senator Menendez, good to have you with us tonight. Thanks
so much.

MENENDEZ: Good to be here.

SCHULTZ: Remember the question at the bottom of the screen. Share
your thoughts with us on Twitter @EdShow and on Facebook. We always want
to know what you think.

Coming up, President Obama was swept into office on the back of the
American labor worker. Leo Gerard on how comprehensive immigration reform
could be a big political machine for 2014 and beyond.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Paul Ryan tries to repackage old Republican ideas. I`ll ask
former Congressman Barney Frank whether our center left country will buy
the American rebranding effort.

And President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton joint
interview has FOX News pushing some new conspiracy theories. We`ll have
all the details later.

Don`t forget you can listen to my radio show on SiriusXM Radio Channel
127, Monday through Friday. We`ll be talking about immigration tomorrow
and this proposal, noon to 3:00 p.m.

Share your thoughts with us on Facebook tonight and on Twitter using
#EdShow.

We`re coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

President Obama`s push for a comprehensive immigration reform might be
just the shot in the arm organized labor needs. The bureau of labor
statistics reports union membership among whites fell by 547,000 last year,
but union memberships among Latinos jumped by 156,000 in 2012. Eleven
million workers coming out of the shadows could change the face of labor
and ignite a powerful political force, which helped put President Obama in
the White House twice.

Let`s turn to Leo Gerard, president of the United Steelworkers
International organization.

Mr. Gerard, good to have you here with us tonight.

LEO GERARD, UNITED STEELWORKERS: Good to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Is this really an issue that is going to help the labor
force in this country? If you have 11 million workers come out of the
shadows -- and let`s face it, well over in the 90 percent have got to be,
they`re not all felons is the point I`m making. How is this going to help
the labor movement in this country?
GERARD: Look, these are primarily good people that came to America in
search of the American dream, in search of a better standard of living. If
you go back to the days of when we were told about NAFTA, we were told
NAFTA would solve the immigration issue from Mexico, but in reality what it
did is depress Mexican wages, depress Mexican opportunity. And those
people came here in search of a better life.

So what we`ve been fighting, the labor movement has been fighting for
proper immigration reform now for going on almost 20 years. And I think
this is going to be a tremendous opportunity for people to come out of the
shadows, to have a full life, to be able to stand up.

You know, we`ve tried to organize it. I don`t know if you`ve seen it.
We organized car wash workers in the Los Angeles area. Some of these car
wash workers were undocumented immigrants, and sometimes at the end of the
week, the boss would tell them that they owed the boss money, because they
used supplies. And we fought that fight, and those workers joined our
union.

Now we`re doing the same thing in Wisconsin with Palermo Pizza.
Undocumented workers in Palermo threatened to fire them all, and we`ve got
an unfair labor practice case going forward.

So, I think in many, many ways this is going to help people to get a
better standard of living. It`s going to give people an opportunity to
speak out and stand up and be part of the real American dream, to be a part
of American democracy.

SCHULTZ: Why do you think conservatives over the years have used the
word amnesty, but have been against any kind of reform? It`s always
something that comes up. Do you it`s because it would help the democratic
process or democratic organizations in this country?

GERARD: I think we`ve got Republicans in particular and extreme
conservatives. Not all Republicans. I shouldn`t say that but you have
extreme Republicans and many Republicans who are opposed to giving these
people a path to citizenship because, to be blunt, as it was said on
numerous occasions, employers like having this army of unsecured -- I mean,
undocumented workers so that they would have a cheap labor force.

SCHULTZ: Sure.

GERARD: Be able to move them around and threaten them.

And, clearly, when you look at the way Republicans have treated
undocumented immigrants from wherever they`re from, they`ve been pushed to
the Democratic Party. And it`s not an accident that so quickly after
President Obama got inaugurated -- that so quickly after he got
inaugurated, they wanted to solve this problem. It hasn`t had much change.

We want to see what comes out of the House of Representatives where
the most extreme are still there.

SCHULTZ: Well, Senator John McCain made it very clear that it`s about
elections.

GERARD: Yes.

SCHULTZ: It`s not about caring for workers, it`s not about caring for
families, it`s about elections. So it`s a demographic wake-up call is what
we`re seeing that is bringing them to reform.

Would you agree?

GERARD: Yes. Ed, you asked the most important question a while ago
when I was listening. The most important question is if they come out and
register, what will their rights be while they`re registered? Are they
going to be able to be threatened again by employers? Are they going to be
able to work? Are they going to be able to vote? Are they going to be
able to stand up for their rights?

SCHULTZ: That`s the whole key.

(CROSSTALK)

GERALD: That`s the whole reason.

SCHULTZ: That is the whole key to this entire issue.

GERARD: That`s right.

SCHULTZ: You tell somebody, hey, we`re going to reform. They come it
of the shadows, and all of the sudden, they didn`t read the fine print.

GERARD: Exactly.

SCHULTZ: There has to be assurances to these workers in this country
that there is not going to be any kind of retaliation whatsoever, that
they`re going to be able to be part of the American dream and change.
That`s what I think.

GERARD: Exactly. I think you`re perfectly right on that. And that`s
one of the things the labor movement has to push for this. Is just the
outline now that has come through the Senate. It hasn`t made its way to
the House. It hasn`t made its way to any details.

Look, when I hear them say they`re going to have to pay a fine and
they`re going to have to pay back taxes, most of these workers aren`t
making --

SCHULTZ: They don`t have it.

GERARD: They don`t have the money saved.

SCHULTZ: They don`t have the money to pay fines. I don`t know why
they don`t have some kind of a voucher system where a worker who is an
American citizen can stand up for someone they know who has been living in
the shadows, say, I know this person, he is a good worker, and go right on
to speed up the process. We could end up having a major bureaucratic red
tape grow out of all of this.

SCHULTZ: Ed, we need a path to citizenship that isn`t going to take
two and three decades. And let me make one other point. The H-B1 visas,
you hear these people talking about well, we have to bring in these
technical workers, we have to bring in tech engineers, we have to bring
this.

The reason they want to do that is they`re not prepared to pay people
the going salary. They`ll say nobody wants the job. You`re not going to
be an engineer working in high-tech for 10 bucks an hour. And so, we`ve
got to take on those issues. Workers have to have a right to join a union,
have a right to collective bargaining.

My last point, there is not a CEO in America that doesn`t have a
contract with his board of directors. If the CEO is entitled to a
contract, why aren`t the workers?

SCHULTZ: Leo Gerard, good to have you with us tonight. A lot to
unpack when it comes to immigration reform in this country.

Paul Ryan backs away from a government shutdown because he knows
Americans don`t want it. But he hasn`t given up on harsh spending cuts.

Former Congressman Barney Frank joins me.

And there is breaking news on the Republican plan to rig the electoral
system. Another Republican governor is now backing off his party`s plan to
steal the vote. Details coming up.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And welcome back to THE ED SHOW.

In center left America tonight, former vice presidential candidate
Paul Ryan is back on the job in Congress, trying to repackage the same old
Republican ideas.

Here is Budget Chairman Ryan talking about the huge cuts coming down
the pike.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN: I think the sequester is going to happen because that $1.2
trillion in spending cuts, we can`t lose those spending cuts. That was to
pay for the last debt ceiling increase, let alone any future increases.

We`re not interested in shutting government down. What happens on
March 1st, spending goes down automatically. March 27th is when the moment
you`re talking about, the continuing resolution expires. We are more than
happy to keep spending at those levels going on into the future while we
debate how to balance the budget, how to grow the economy, how to create
economic opportunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: All right. Now, let`s put this in context and think about
what Congressman Ryan from Wisconsin is really saying.

Republicans backed off their debt limit threat because they knew it
was a political loser. And now they seem to be backing off their threat to
shut down the government. Sequester? Well, that`s another matter. If
Congress does nothing, the cuts take effect.

Republicans don`t want defense cuts, but they might be willing to
stomach those cuts because domestic programs would also get slashed,
including Medicare. And that`s what Republicans really want.

Let`s turn to Barney Frank, former Massachusetts congressman, with us
tonight here on THE ED SHOW.

Congressman, good to have you with us.

BARNEY FRANK (D-MA), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Thank you, Ed.

SCHULTZ: You bet.

Republicans are trying to change their image here. Is it going to
work? Your thoughts on what you just heard.

FRANK: No, because they`re not going to be allowed simply to do the
thing Paul Ryan did. He talked about entitlement.

People should understand when he talks about cutting entitlements,
entitlements is Republican for Social Security and Medicare, the two most
successful anti-poverty programs in American history, two great
accomplishments which substantially reduce poverty among older people and
created the possibility for most Americans of a comfortable -- not a
wealthy, not an affluent -- but a reasonably comfortable retirement.

The other flaw is when Ryan says, well, these cuts are to pay for the
debt limit. He acts as if he is doing me a favor, or President Obama a
favor, by raising the debt limit. I voted against the war in Iraq. So did
President Obama.

If we had not gone to war in Iraq, if we had not followed that
foolish, mistaken and unfortunately damaging policy, we`d have a trillion
dollars less.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

FRANK: We would be that much under the debt limit.

Plus, the debt ceiling simply says we`re not going to pay our bills.
It just is illogical to say that`s to pay for that. That`s like going out
and incurring costs which all of us did, Republicans and Democrats
together, and then saying oh, and by the way, I`m not going to pay my bill
unless you do me this enormous favor.

SCHULTZ: Well --

FRANK: But the other point I would make is this. He talks about we
need tax reform. The biggest single abuse in the tax code today, and it`s
a tough contest, is the one that says the richest people in America who run
hedge funds can treat their earned income as if it were a capital gain.
They call it carried interest.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

FRANK: It means the rest of us are carrying them. And we voted to
reduce that. And Paul Ryan boxed it. He is against that. So -- and if
you remember from that interview, he did not give a single specific about a
tax break he wants to end, and he talked about cutting entitlements without
--

SCHULTZ: Well, he says no more revenues. I mean, he is up front
saying no more revenue. I mean, that`s their position on that. Now,
they`ve backed off the debt limit. Now they`re backing off a government
shutdown.

Can President Obama get them to back off sequester as well? Or do you
believe what he says, they really want that?

FRANK: I think he could. Here is the I think important point: the
business community in America, particularly the financial community, to my
great disappointment, you know, they were many of them supportive of
President Obama in 2008. He was rationale and helped get the country out
of the terrible crisis they engendered. We had a bipartisan cooperation
with the Bush administration to do that, 2008-2009.

And then because we passed a financial reform bill that stopped some
of the worst abuses and set up an independent consumer agency, they
overwhelmingly supported the Republicans. I`ve said to some of them, you
know, you are supporting people who are following policies that you know
are illogical.

So what happened -- and I think this happened on the debt limit. I
think their financial backers said to them, guys, you`re going too far.
And they`re under great pressure from the people who have overwhelmingly
financed them --

SCHULTZ: Yeah.

FRANK: -- to be a little bit more logical. So I do think, yes, there
is a chance to avoid the sequester. By the way, I believe that the level
of cuts we are talking about in the military are sustainable. They need to
be phased in, and they need to be sensible. You don`t cut across the board
you. You cut American military bases in Western Europe, which we no longer
need. You cut a nuclear stockpile, since I don`t think we`re going to
fight an all-out war with the Soviet Union.

SCHULTZ: Do you think the Democrats are going to try to go deeper in
defense cuts? Quickly on that one, because I have one more question.

FRANK: I believe, yes -- I think the logic of it is overwhelming that
we will do that, because you can find ways to cut that don`t hurt our
economy and save us money that we need to use elsewhere.

SCHULTZ: And Congressman Frank, Deval Patrick expected to name a
temporary successor to John Kerry`s -- his Senate seat. Where are you on
that? It`s no question he is going to get confirmed. And have you had any
other further contact or conversation --

FRANK: No, I want to respect the governor`s prerogative on this. I
expressed interest in it. I had not previously been interested, Ed. I was
ready to sort of relax and frankly make a little money here, doing some
things, making speeches and writing a book. And then I saw the important
decision that are coming up.

So I expressed my interest in doing it. I was a little surprised that
some people told me that it was considered inappropriate to ask for this.
I wasn`t asking to be invited to dinner. But it`s the governor`s decision.
He has got tough decisions to make. I have a great deal of confidence in
him. And I have said to people, this is not a matter in which he should be
pressured. I made myself clear.

But no -- I think in defense of the governor and in support of him, he
should not have been doing anything, as he hasn`t, until the Senate
confirms John Kerry. John is entitled to the full support of those of us
who admire him. And the governor, appropriately, has not done anything or
sent any signal that would have let the senator say oh, you`re taking us
for granted.

SCHULTZ: Barney Frank, great to have you with us on THE ED SHOW
tonight. Thanks you so much.

There`s a lot more coming up in the next half hour of the show. Stay
with us. We`re right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REINCE PRIEBUS, RNC CHAIRMAN: Being a blue state is not a permanent
diagnosis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The plan that was too radical for Virginia has piqued Scott
Walker`s interest in Wisconsin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: It`s an interesting idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Next, Reverend Jesse Jackson on the ongoing Republican
effort to steal the vote.

The president gears up for Super Bowl Sunday, but questions the
violence of the game.

And back up the right wing wham-bulance. Barack Obama and Hillary
Clinton have the righties in tears.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did she hit her head and get a concussion?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was no follow-up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she pass out and hit her head? Was she
pushed?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Jonathan Alter breaks down the big interview ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Thanks for stay with us tonight. A handful of states are
considering laws to redraw districts and exclude voters, so they can help
Republicans win the White House in 2016. Here is the scary part. Scott
Walker and four other governors may be the only people who can stop this
election rigging. And that`s exactly what it is.

President Obama won the electoral votes in Michigan, Florida, Ohio and
Pennsylvania, Virginia, along with Wisconsin. Now Republicans in all five
states are pushing to change the way they allocate electoral votes. The
good news is powerful Republicans in Florida and Virginia say that they
won`t change the electoral vote system.

Governor of Virginia Bob McDonnell says he is against the change as
well. But his buddy Scott Walker was on the fence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Well, it`s an interesting idea. I haven`t committed one way
or the other to it. I think we have to be very careful in changes like
that. But it`s worth looking at. I haven`t made a commitment one way or
the other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: All this needs is a little publicity, because tonight Walker
has backed off those statements. He tells the "Journal Sentinel" that he
has a real concern about changing the way Wisconsin awards electoral votes.
But a pair of lobbyists could be sending money to Wisconsin anyway. They
won`t admit the changes would disenfranchise black and Latino voters. One
lobbyist claims "it has nothing to do with race. It`s not a race issue.
It`s about a machine."

Another lobbyist blamed black organizers for the long lines in Ohio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEN BLACKWELL (R), FORMER OH SECRETARY OF STATE: The reality is that
we`ve had long lines due to the success of groups that turn out high
numbers of voters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The Republicans can`t figure out how to win black and Latino
voters so they find ways to suppress them instead. Colin Powell talked
about it last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Should we really have gone
after reducing the turnout of voters in those places where we thought it
would make a difference? The Republican party should be a party that says
we want everybody to vote, and make it easier for people to vote.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: So far, Republicans may be blocking more votes than they`re
winning. I`m joined tonight by Reverend Jesse Jackson, president of the
Rainbow-Push Coalition.

Reverend, good to have you with us tonight.

REV. JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW-PUSH COALITION, PRESIDENT: You know,
Jefferson Davis Democrats were doing anything, as Republican conservatives,
to deny access to voting.

SCHULTZ: Well, what do you say to Mr. Blackwell, who says African-
American organizers caused those long lines?

JACKSON: Well, I was in Ohio during that period. We had wet people
and dry machines. We had machines locked up in the warehouse dry. People
stood in the rain seven hours that day to vote. So you cannot blame people
for doing what they ought to do, vote. You can blame those that held the
machines back for holding the machines back.

SCHULTZ: Would changing the electoral college votes hurt African-
American and Latino voters?

JACKSON: Ultimately it would hurt everybody, we`re so inextricably
bound. Those who once sought to deny the right to vote now seek to
suppress the right to vote. They tried all kinds of maneuvers in 2011 and
`12, from trying to stop early voting, from trying to demand there be a
birth certificate.

And Florida and Pennsylvania and Ohio and Colorado, in particular, are
a part of that bigger scheme, where voter suppression because voter
stimulation. I`m convinced people who would not have voted ordinarily did
vote because they were inspired to vote because they were afraid.

SCHULTZ: My take on this is since it`s gotten some publicity in the
last few weeks -- it`s legal. State legislators can do this if they go
through the process. But it doesn`t seem fair to people at all. And the
one vote, one person obviously is violated.

So what is the defense mechanism that can be put in place here?

JACKSON: Well, it`s beyond that, Ed. There is a Supreme Court case
to be heard now. They want to pull the plug on Section 5, the enforcement
mechanism. They want to argue that why punish, quote/unquote, the south.
The Voting Right Act does not just apply to the south. It`s based upon
need to protect people.

When you look at the voting patterns of 2012, it`s evidence obviously
people voting patterns that threaten ease of access to voting. And race is
a major factor in that conclusion.

SCHULTZ: I need to emphasize that. Many people say it`s not race.
Some lobbyists obviously greasing the skids for people saying it`s not
about race. You say it is.

JACKSON: It is. But it went to Selma in `65. Blacks couldn`t vote.
White women couldn`t serve on juries until `67. Eighteen -Year-olds who
served in Vietnam could not vote. You couldn`t vote on campus. You had to
vote absentee or vote -- go home. And you couldn`t vote multilingual. In
many ways, the right -- the new majority is affected by this, not just the
black vote. But the new majority is affected by this attempt, by this
scheme.

SCHULTZ: Reverend, you`re in town tonight for the Wall Street
Project. Tell us about this economic summit.

JACKSON: Well, in part, I`m convinced that, beyond this argument
about fiscal cliff and the issue that is in there about debt limit, is how
we are going rebuild America. There are billions of trillion of --
billions of pension fund money. We want to spend some sort of
infrastructure development bank. There may be a trillion dollars offshore.
If you cut a deal, they bring back some of that money for the purpose of
reinvesting in such a bank, you can rebuild.

Because the banks that destroyed and manipulated, they`re not going to
-- they`re not going to green line the red line zones. President Clinton
will speak to us on this coming Thursday.

SCHULTZ: So a special bank, a special fund that would be dedicated to
infrastructure and jobs?

JACKSON: And based upon target. It may be Appalachian, maybe in the
city. What is Marshall Plan, except 50-year loans at two percent
government secured? It was a plan to invest in, quote/unquote, risky
areas.

The major banks that engaged in predatory lending and subprime
lending, they`re not going to do this. But we, in fact, have the capacity
to build an infrastructure development bank or banks, to serve the purpose
of green lining the red line zones in our country.

SCHULTZ: OK, Reverend Jesse Jackson, thanks for joining us tonight on
THE ED SHOW. Appreciate your time.

President Obama is a lifetime Chicago Bears fan. But it`s not
stopping him from speaking out about the dangers associated with playing
football. We`ll bring you the latest. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: We always love hearing from our viewers on our Facebook and
Twitter, activities that are out there. Many of you are responding to the
picture we posted of President Obama running along the colonnade of the
White House with children of new chief of staff Denis McDonough.

On Facebook, Melanie Shafer says "this is why we love Barack. He is
one of us. He doesn`t let his job interfere with being just a regular
guy."

Linda Johnston writes, "he`s so cute. And he`s still a kid at heart.
Go, Barack.

And Diane Ploufe Christianson says, "it`s great to see a president who
loves kids, and they enjoy him as well."

You can go to our Facebook page right now, and you can join the
conversation. And don`t forget to like THE ED SHOW. And we love you for
doing that.

Still to come, Fox News freaks after President Obama and Hillary
Clinton do a big interview. Jonathan Alter joins me on the latest
conspiracy theories from the right wing. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Well, Super Bowl XLVII only six days away. President Obama
speaking out on the dangers of long-term head injuries associated with
football. It`s important to point out that the president is a life-long
Chicago Bears fan and loves watching the game.

But in a recent interview with "The New Republic," the president
expressed concern for players, saying "if I had a son, I would have to
think long and hard before I let him play football. And I think that those
of us who love the sport are going to have to wrestle with the fact that it
will probably change gradually to try to reduce some of the violence."

President Obama also said NFL players have protections in place, like
their players union and high salaries. But he is worried that college
football players are at risk, saying, "you know, you read some of these
stories about college players who undergo some of the same problems with
concussions and so forth, and then they have nothing to fall back on.
That`s something that I would like to see the NCAA think about."

It`s a very serious issue. We reported about it here on THE ED SHOW.
There is a direct link between playing football and dangerous brain
diseases like CTE. In case you didn`t think it`s on the minds of the
players, here is what Ravens safety Bernard Pollard had to say: "the only
thing that I`m waiting for -- and I hope it doesn`t happen -- is a guy
dying on the field. We`ve had everything else happen there except for a
death. We understand what we signed up for, and it sucks."

And an estimated 100 million Americans are getting ready to watch the
Super Bowl this Sunday. Everyone loves to see the big plays and the big
hits, and it`s turning out, as long as it`s not our kid out there on the
field.

Tonight in our survey, I asked you, do you trust Republicans on
immigration reform? Four percent of you said yes; 96 percent of you say
no.

Coming up, the president and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton sat
down for a rare joint interview. And Fox News, well, they didn`t like it a
bit. Jonathan Alter weighs in on it next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: And in the big finish tonight, President Obama and outgoing
Secretary of State Hillary Clinton sat down for a rare joint interview with
Steve Kroft of "60 Minutes" this weekend. The two discussed their past
rivalry, their current working relationship and American foreign policy.

It was a public sign of solidarity between the two former rivals. Yet
that proved to be too much for the folks over at Fox News. The "Fox &
Friends" trio complained about the lack of real news, and attacked Kroft
for not digging deeper into Clinton`s health issues.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The interview was awkward. They were giddy,
saying goodbye. And right at the top, Steve Kroft said they only gave us
30 minutes, which of course means there is not going to be any real news.
And there wasn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But if you give somebody 30 minutes, you could get
real into it, especially if you`re Steve Kroft, who is usually awesome.
But I think for some reason they didn`t dig into anything at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty minutes? Come on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to know, did she pass out and hit her
head? Was she pushed? How did she hit her head and get a concussion?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And the whining didn`t stop there. The network that served
as the Bush administration`s head cheerleader is now taking issue with the
questions asked of President Obama and Secretary Clinton?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, didn`t you expect one series of tough
questions?

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Especially so in the case of "60
Minutes."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, it really was something you would expect
from the state-run media. It was that kind of level of propaganda.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got to tell you, I was waiting for it in
anticipation. And here is what I got. I got a softball. I got a whiffle
ball. I got a Nerf Ball. I got an air ball. I got a marshmallow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It should be called 60 soft minutes, like a soft
boiled egg.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Well, Kroft challenged the president and secretary of state
on the administration`s brand of foreign policy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE KROFT, "60 MINUTES": The biggest criticism of this team and the
U.S. foreign policy from your political opposition has been what they say -
- an abdication of the United States on the world stage.

OBAMA: Moammar Gadhafi probably does not agree with that assessment.
or at least if was around, he wouldn`t agree with that assessment.
Obviously we helped to put together and lay the groundwork for liberating
Libya. When it comes to Egypt, I think had it not been for the leadership
we showed, you might have seen a different outcome there.

But also, understanding that we do nobody a service when we leap
before we look.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Joining me now, MSNBC political analyst, "Bloomberg View"
columnist Jonathan Alter. Great to have you with us, Jonathan. A rare
interview, rare occasion needs special assessment. What do you think of
what you just heard?

JONATHAN ALTER, "BLOOMBERG VIEW": I mean, I thought it was a good
interview. Could he have had a couple more zingers? Sure. But it`s
really hard when it`s, A, two-on-one, which it was in this case, and B,
when you`re interviewing a president. I didn`t see the Fox guys cross-
examining, prosecuting George W. Bush when he was president. These
interviews are always going to be fairly polite.

And in this case, I think it was quite skillful in a couple of
regards. He had to ask about 2016. That`s kind of a hackneyed question.
And the president said you`re incorrigible, Steve. But he did it in I
think kind of a clever way, by saying, is there a time limit on your
endorsement of Secretary Clinton in terms of 2016.

And there were a couple of other things that he did in terms of
getting in important questions in ways that were not too confrontational.
Easy for those guys to say it`s a whiffle ball interview. I don`t think
any of them have ever done it. And I thought it was hilarious that on "Fox
& Friends" they raise the question of was she pushed?

This was Vince Foster was killed stuff. Was she pushed? That`s the
ultimate idiotic conspiracy theory that somebody was trying to do in the
secretary of state.

SCHULTZ: Why do you think the president did it? Why do you think he
did it?

ALTER: Oh, he did it for pretty obvious reasons.

SCHULTZ: She is pretty popular. That can`t hurt.

ALTER: Yes. He wanted to make it clear, as she is leaving office,
that they really were a team, that they were on the same page, and to thank
her, as he said, because Kroft actually asked her, you know, why are you
doing this interview? Which normally we don`t do. I think it was a good
question in terms of advancing transparency that he asked it.

The president wanted to really make it clear how much he valued her.
And it did show a certain gratitude that he has been accused of lacking in
the past.

SCHULTZ: Let`s talk about 2016. Does this put him in a box that
maybe he couldn`t come out and support Joe Biden?

ALTER: Well, Joe Biden is not going to run if Hillary runs. So it
doesn`t put him in any kind of a box.

SCHULTZ: If Hillary Clinton runs, Joe Biden will not run?

ALTER: Right now -- things can always change in politics, but right
now, she is in such a commanding position that if she decides that she
wants to run, it would be a coronation. I think she would only have token
opposition. So you`re not going to see that Biden/Clinton race that
everybody in the press wants to see.

SCHULTZ: Is it just in the culture of the media that they were
looking for something? They just couldn`t accept the fact that these two
were big rivals in 2008, there was pretty tough stuff said back and forth,
and they come back to work together for the good of the country? Is this
just an example that Fox just can`t stomach?

ALTER: We`re always, all of us, not just Fox -- we want news. But if
news makers are determined to not make news, which it`s clear they were --
they were doing this for a particular purpose, the president to show
gratitude, the secretary of state to have an exit kind of interview where
she mentioned some of their achievements. It was nothing any reporter
could have done, especially a Fox reporter, if they had been there, to get
them to make news.

So this idea that somehow Kroft failed to get them to make news is
ridiculous.

SCHULTZ: Here is more where the president is giving high praise to
Secretary Clinton. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I think Hillary will go down as one of the finest secretary of
states we`ve had.

I want the country to appreciate just what an extraordinary role she
has played during the course of my administration. And a lot of the
successes we`ve had internationally have been because of her hard work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: There was a real letdown in the Clinton arena when she did
not get the nomination in 2008. It was a real jolt. And for her to come
back and perform for the country the way she has, don`t you think that`s
part of what this is all about?

ALTER: Yeah. I thought actually one of the most interesting parts of
the interview was when Steve Kroft asked about spouses. Because that`s
where in politics a lot of times the real bitterness lingers. And you
know, Bill Clinton has had a harder time forgiving the president than
Hillary Clinton has. And Michelle Obama I think has had a harder time
burying the hatchet than President Obama has.

This was a very tough race in 2008. But what is interesting is that
they seem to have some chemistry in that interview. It wasn`t a kind of
formal stiff --

SCHULTZ: It was pretty smooth, pretty natural.

ALTER: They had a connection with each other that was important for
the country to see.

SCHULTZ: All right, Jonathan Alter, great to have you with us.
Thanks so much. That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. And Rachel Maddow of
"THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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