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updated 9/18/2012 1:17:51 PM ET 2012-09-18T17:17:51

THE ED SHOW with ED SCHULTZ
September 17, 2012

Guests: Chris Kofinis; Ted Strickland, David Cay Johnston, Rep. Tim Ryan, Rev. Barry Lynn


ED SCHULTZ, MSNBC HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to "the
Ed Show" from New York. Thank you for joining us tonight.

We have breaking news off the top tonight. And I think this may be
one of the biggest turns of the campaign.

Today a recording of Mitt Romney at a private fundraiser has surfaced.
It reveals his frank, candid opinion of nearly half of the American
population. It was recorded in recording tape without Romney`s knowledge.
And it was provided to a "Mother Jones" magazine as well as NBC news`s own
Michael Isikoff. Here`s part of the tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the past three years, all everybody`s been
told is don`t worry, we will take care of you. How are you going to do it,
in two months before the elections to convince everybody, you have got to
take care of yourself?

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are 47 percent of the
people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there
are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who
believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a
responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to
health care, to food, to housing, to you name it, that that`s an
entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will
vote for this president no matter what. And I mean, the president starts
off with 48, 49, - he starts off with a huge number. These are people who
pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax.

So, our message of low taxes doesn`t connect. So, he will be out
there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean, that`s what they sell
every four years. And so, my job is not to worry about those people. I
will never convince them the five to ten percent in the center that are
independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other
depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Romney didn`t know that was being recorded. And of course,
he was speaking to donors. The Romney campaign has responded tonight.

"Mitt Romney wants to help all Americans struggling in the Obama
economy as the governor has made clear all year. He is concerned about the
growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government
including the record number of people who are on food stamps. Nearly one
in six Americans in poverty and 23 million Americans who are struggling to
find work. Mitt Romney`s plan creates 12 million new jobs in four years,
grows the economy, and moves Americans off of government dependency and
into jobs.

Folks, this is an admission as far as Mitt Romney is concerned. There
are two Americas and he only cares about one of them. Does Mitt Romney
really think that people in this country want to be on Medicare, that they
want to be poor, that they want to be disabled, that they want to have
assistance? Is that really the path that he thinks that Americans want to
take?

And most Americans I believe tonight, especially liberals, are going
to be absolutely offended by the comment. My job is not to worry about
those people. I will never convinced them that they should take personal
responsibility and care for their lives.

Personal responsibility. Personal responsibility. Those of you in
nursing homes, those of you who are in wheelchairs, those of you who depend
on assistance by the government because we`re a government of compassion.
We have always been a country of compassion. But all of a sudden, the
Republicans are putting up a candidate who wants to wipe away that because
we want to privatize everything.

The Obama campaign has also responded.

It`s shocking that a candidate for president of the United States
would go behind closed doors and declare to a group of wealthy donors that
half the American people view themselves as victims entitled to handouts
and are unwilling to take personal responsibility for their own lives.
It`s hard to serve as president for all Americans when you disdainfully
written off half of the nation.

And that`s exactly what Mitt Romney has done here with this statement
behind closed doors. For months on this program, I have asked, will the
real Mitt Romney, please stand up? in this video recording that he didn`t
know about, he got behind closed doors. We saw the real Mitt Romney. He
did stand up. He doesn`t give a damn about those who needs assistance in
this country and it cuts to the very fabric of who we are as a country that
we are a society, we are a country of compassion. That we want to help
people who are downtrodden. We want to help those who were dealt a really
tough deck of cards, whether it be in the economy, or whether it be health
care, as of no fault of their own, or circumstances that are put on
families that are totally out of their control.

Mitt Romney wants to do away with those. He views those people as
basically road kill. And he is not even going to communicate to them and
he`s not going to offer up a better plan to make their lives better. He
just says they should be personally responsible for who they are and where
they are in America.

I think that this is a blow for the Republican party. It`s a low for
the conservative movement. And if it`s all about the money and if it`s all
about privatization, then truly this country will change if this man is
elected president of the United States.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question, is this video proof of what Mitt Romney really believes about the
poor in this country? Text "A for yes and text "B" for no to 622639. You
can always go to our blog at ed.msnbc.com. We`ll bring you results later
on in the show.

And earlier in an interview that Mitt Romney had with George
Stephanopoulos, and they were talking about the middle class. He made the
comment about the middle class being somewhere between 200 and $250,000 a
year in income.

This man has no clue where America is. He hasn`t walked the walk with
any American who has struggled whatsoever. He was born with not only a
silver spoon in his mouth, but a silver foot as well.

Joining me now is former Ohio governor Ted Strickland, co-chair for
the Obama 2012 campaign.

Governor, great to have you with us tonight.

This is clearly a shot over the bow when it comes to class warfare.
That he`s willing to pick and choose Americans as to who he is going to
serve if he`s president of the United States. I mean, that`s how I view
this. Your take?

TED STRICKLAND (D), FORMER OHIO GOVERNOR: Ed, these are the most
reprehensible, despicable, pathetic words that I have ever heard come out
of a candidate`s mouth. I think this should disqualify him of ever being
the president of our country. Forty-seven percent of us, he says, really
don`t count. That we are free loaders, that we consider ourselves victims.

And Ed, think about this. Forty-seven percent of the people who voted
for Barack Obama, that`s who he`s talking about, some of those people are
serving us in Afghanistan right now, risking their lives for Mitt Romney,
for me, for you, for all Americans. But apparently he considers them to be
freeloaders. Perhaps that`s why he didn`t bother to mention their
sacrifice at the Republican convention.

This statement really, really, really shows his character and he`s got
a major character flaw. Anyone who would talk about 47 percent of
Americans with the kind of disdain that he used with his words simply -- I
mean, why does he want to be the president of America? How can he possibly
pull us together if he at the get go has said that 47 percent of us are
unworthy.

SCHULTZ: I think it is a snapshot quickly of what we have suspected
of Mitt Romney all along. I think this is the key part in his comment. He
says, and so, my job is not to worry about those people. I will never
convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for
their lives. I mean, this is a damning comment by a candidate who seems to
have no concept of what people are going through in this country. It`s
almost as if I don`t give a damn about them. I just got to get 10 percent
of the independents and we`re going to be OK and get the kind of country we
want.

STRICKLAND: That`s right. I mean, it`s so sad. This man, who was
born into wealth, who`s never had to worry about whether his family had
access to health care, whether his kids could afford to go to college, he`s
never had an economic worry in his life. And yet he can speak with such
disdain, almost in a mocking way, about 47 percent of Americans. And I
would just ask the independents who may be watching. Please watch this
complete video and then ask yourselves, is this the kind of man that we
want to be the president of our country? This should disqualify Mitt
Romney from the presidency. And I believe if more and more Americans see
this, they will reach that conclusion as well.

All right, former governor of Ohio, Ted Strickland, thank you for your
time tonight.

Let`s turn now to MSNBC contributor and "Washington Post" columnist
E.J. Dionne, author of the book, "our divided political heart."

E.J., I want to ask - I want to play this tape one more time so we can
gather with our viewers tonight. Let`s take a look and talk about it
afterwards. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the past three years, all everybody`s been
told is don`t worry, we will take care of you. How are you going to do it,
in two months before the elections to convince everybody, you have got to
take care of yourself?

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are 47 percent of the
people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there
are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who
believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a
responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to
health care, to food, to housing, to you name it, that that`s an
entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will
vote for this president no matter what. And I mean, the president starts
off with 48, 49, - he starts off with a huge number. These are people who
pay no income tax. Forty-seven percent of Americans pay no income tax.

So, our message of low taxes doesn`t connect. So, he will be out
there talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean, that`s what they sell
every four years. And so, my job is not to worry about those people. I
will never convince them the five to ten percent in the center that are
independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other
depending upon in some cases emotion, whether they like the guy or not.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)


SCHULTZ: E.J., the comment, they believe they are victims. What do you
think about that?

E.J. DIONNE, COLUMNIST, THE WASHINGTON POST: I thought the whole
thing was astonishing because the implication is that anyone who ever gets
help from the government is dependent and a victim. By the way, I did the
math. Romney has set a daunting standard for himself. Because if he`s
right, that 47 percent is ruled out for him, that means he needs 94.5
percent of that 53 percent to win the election. So it`s a very odd
standard.

But let`s analyze, who is he talking about here? Seniors on Medicare
and Social Security, well they depend upon the government. Are they part
of that class? What about people on veterans` benefits? What about
students who want to work hard in their lives and get student loans to go
to college. What about low-income people who get help for their children?
Are all these people lazy? No.

SCHULTZ: Exactly.

DIONNE: I mean, are all these people lazy and dependents? No.

SCHULTZ: All of those things you`re mentioning, E.J., this is an
endorsement of the Ryan plan. I mean, this sound byte that we have got
from Mitt Romney behind closed doors is a full throttle endorsement of the
Ryan plan. That this is really where they want to go. That they are
willing to have people in our society fall by the wayside.

DIONNE: The suggestion is that somehow our country, the richest
country in the world, a very hard-working country. We have short vacation
times compared to a lot of the other wealthy countries. I mean, this is a
hard-working country. And to imply that somehow half of us are dependent
is a real problem. And the other thing is the definition on taxes.

He mentions income taxes. That does that mean that people who pay the
Social Security tax, sales taxes, property taxes, are they dependent
because they don`t pay income tax? And by the way, it does raise an
unfortunate set of questions for him tomorrow. He paid, according to one
tax return, we13, 14 percent of his income. That`s a lot less than people
upper middle class people, lawyers, accountants, doctors pay because the
government favors capital over labor. Does that make capital dependent on
government? I hope he`s asked about it.

SCHULTZ: And I think that this is how it`s going to play on the right
wing, I believe. That the blogster (ph) has already started praising his
remarks. RNC chairman Reince Priebus says Mitt Romney was on message.
Could this in some strange way, actually help Romney with his base?

DIONNE: I don`t know. I think the folks who are going to respond
positively it to this were already voting against president Obama. Few
people will turn out. But I don`t think - I just don`t see how this
statement helps him. Because there`s so many people he is putting in that
dependent category who think of themselves as hardworking Republicans. So
I don`t see how this helps.

SCHULTZ: Social security, Medicare, I don`t think he was talking
about that. I think he was talking about Medicaid. And the people who are
in Medicaid, the elderly, no fault of their own, they don`t want to be
there. No one wants to be in poor circumstances. No one wants to be
unemployed. Is he talking about unemployment benefits as well? The 99ers,
the whole group. I think this is a definition that we have heard in the
past of two Americas and he doesn`t want to care about a portion of our
society, which I find absolutely amazing.

DIONNE: I do too. But to get to 47 percent of all of us, you`ve got
to get up into the middle class. So he`s talking, you know, about a vast
swath of people. It`s not even just the poorest people in our society.
And I agree, the implication that a lot of these folks don`t want to work.
A lot of them do work and need extra help from government just to put food
on the table for the kids.

SCHULTZ: Not that the Obama campaign need a game changer, but let`s
call this a major eye opener. If you weren`t following the campaign, you
wanted to know who Mitt Romney is, they found out tonight.

E.J. Dionne, thanks for joining us. Appreciate it.

DIONNE: Great to be with you, Ed.

SCHULTZ:

You bet. Remember to answer tonight`s question at the bottom of the
screen. Share your thoughts, on twitter and facebook. We want to know
what you think.

Coming up, 50 days until the election and the Romney campaign is
scrambling to change course. Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis joins me
next. What is happening to the Romney campaign? Can they recover?

That`s next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Coming up, with less than two months until the Election Day.
The Romney campaign desperately tries to change course. Democratic
strategist Chris Kofinis joins me next.

And President Obama gets tough on China. I will ask Ohio congressman
Tim Ryan why the president`s action to fight unfair trading practices would
mean for jobs around the country.

Share your thoughts with us on facebook. Lots to talk about tonight
and on twitter using the #edshow.

We are coming right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to "the Ed Show." And thanks for watching
tonight.

You know, we are just 50 days from the presidential election. And
Governor Mitt Romney is paying the price. Romney is now the leader of the
Republican party that has spent the last four years doing what? Trying to
destroy President Obama instead of creating a positive vision for the
middle class in this country. And they have badly missed the mark.

Today, the Romney campaign did something we rarely see in presidential
campaigns. They held a press conference call in response to an article
portraying its campaign in a free fall. The "Politico" piece says Romney`s
convention stumbles have weeks of public griping and internal sniping about
not only Romney but also his chief strategist Steward Stevens. In other
words, Mr. Fix it can`t seem to run a campaign.

So today Romney`s campaign strategists announced a shift in strategy.
Their new mantra will be "status quo versus change." The shift to over
reportedly include more specifics on policy.

Let`s take a look at here`s what Mitt Romney`s brand new ad says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: My plan is to help the middle class. Trade has to work for
America. That means crackdown on cheaters like China. It needs open up
new markets. Next, we have to balance the budget. You have to cut the
deficit. We have to stop spending more money than we take in. And
finally, champion small business. Have tax policies, regulations and
health care policies that help small business. We put those in place,
we`ll add 12 million new jobs in four years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Real good generic pabulum, don`t you think? After paying
lip service to the middle class, Romney talks about trade, the deficit,
small business. Offers no specifics because his campaign has no message
for the middle class in this country. Mitt Romney doesn`t even understand
what the middle class is all about. Here`s Romney in a recent interview.
Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: $100,000 middle income?

ROMNEY: No. Middle income is 200, $250,000 or less. So, number one,
don`t reduce or simply don`t raise taxes on middle income people. Lower
them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Middle class is between 200, $250,000 a year? Mitt Romney
is so out of touch, he thinks middle class income is between 200 and
$250,000 a year. The Republican party has done nothing to appeal to the
middle class in this country. The largest voting bloc in this country has
been ignored in this campaign season by the Republicans across the board.

On the question who is better in advancing issues of the middle class,
President Obama holds a 15-point advantage. And other polls show a similar
result. Now the Republican party is trying to basically reinvent
themselves politically trying to pretend they offer something to the middle
class. But this is after four years of rooting against President Obama and
trying to block every single thing he`s offered for the middle class and
workers in this country. It`s like I acquitted to a sports fan. Someone
who buys a ticket to a ball game. And so, instead of going out and routing
for their team, they route against the other team.

Let`s turn to Democratic strategist Chris Kofinis with us tonight here
on "the Ed Show."

Chris, it`s good to have you with us.

CHRIS KOFINIS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Thanks, Ed. Good evening.

SCHULTZ: You know, game changer, I know that word, that phrase is
thrown around a lot. But this is something that this tape could really dog
the - we got another dog story with the Romney campaign. This could really
dog them to all the way to Election Day and be a problem for them. How do
they get around it?

KOFINIS: Well, I`m not sure they can. Especially not with this team.
Here`s the problem with this tape. It`s not that it`s shocking in terms of
what he said because it`s what he`s already said. What it does is re-
enforce this narrative that he doesn`t really grasp what this election is
really about.

And if you look at these two conventions, if you look at these two
campaigns, if you look at the messages coming from the Obama campaign, Mr.
Romney`s campaign. You have an Obama campaign that is focused like a laser
only middle class. How to improved the middle class` lives. They are
addressing concerns.

And you have a Romney campaign who doesn`t have any vision or idea how
to address those middle class concerns. And then when you see them behind
closed doors, has disdain for anyone who is either struggling or in the
middle class. Just a bizarre logic to why you`re running for president.

SCHULTZ: But Chris, doesn`t this put the Republicans in the Romney
campaign in somewhat of an unattainable position? Their only move right
now is to embrace this. They can`t -- this is their only move. To go hard
right, big time, as best they can. We have a story coming up later on the
show about the voter values conference so they went really hard right wing
there. What other choice do they have here?

KOFINIS: None. And in fact, you actually raised an important point
in the last segment about how does this play with his base and the right
wing. I actually think to your point, I think it helps him with the right
wing and the base.

SCHULTZ: -- which is what they have been starving for.

KOFINIS: Right. Because it basically - you know, it says to them, he
is a right wing Republican. But where it hurts him is those voters that
are going to decide this election. Those moderates, those independents,
those undecided who are concern about the future, who are middle and look
at Romney and look at this kind of coldness that he has to real people and
to struggling people and that just turned off voters. People don`t elect
resumes. They elect human beings.

SCHULTZ: Now, it -- does Romney come out and talk about this tape?
Now, I want to go back, if I may. President Obama has been down this road
too. Because in April of 2008, President Obama was also recorded at a
fundraiser where he was talking about how folks sometimes cling to their
guns and their bible. And of course, that was an issue for some weeks that
the right wing jumped all over. And the president had to explain it. Do
you think Mitt Romney has to explain this tape?

KOFINIS: I think he`s going to have to address it because the media
is not going to let this one go. They are just too mean. And right
there`s a feeding frenzy. You see the story in "Politico" about the
campaign in disarray, the convention in disarray, the Olympics gaffe --

SCHULTZ: You believe all that?

KOFINIS: That the campaign is in disarray?

SCHULTZ: Absolutely.

KOFINIS: It is absolutely disarray. If you look at where this
campaign is, they have figured out how to make their candidate look worse.
Now, that is an accomplishment when it comes to Mitt Romney, in a lot of
ways, but you know, smart campaign teams make their candidates look better.
They have done the opposite.

Now, what they have had a difficult time with Governor Romney is he
does it to himself. And that is I think the real difference between him
and let`s say President Obama who is a very strong and good candidate.

SCHULTZ: You know, it`s interesting that he used the word victims.
This is a guy who had a business model to ship jobs overseas. Did he feel
like he was victimizing any of those families that he was taking their jobs
away from them because he was in a position to take profit retirement, blow
up debt, and shut down a company and ship the jobs and the manufacturing
overseas? His vocabulary parallels, it really does, I think in many
instances. And it just pours right off him. I think the guy is totally
out of touch.

Chris Kofinis, always great to have you with us tonight. Thank you
for joining us on "the Ed Show."

Next, Republicans have spent decades promising tax cuts can fix the
economy.

Tonight, my friends there is do research that shows us exactly why the
Republicans have been wrong for so long. We will do the math that big in
his boardroom when we come back.

Stay with us. We are right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. This has been one of the
republicans favorite narratives for the past two decades. You know, in the
radio business it`s kind of like that DJ that gets a new time slot and he
really wants to make it work, so we`ll play the hits. Play "Hotel
California" -- everybody likes that, or in "In a Gadda da Vida" or
whatever. You know what I mean. Pick the hot song and just play it and
people are probably going to like you.

You know, when you have a new Republican out on the stump who is
trying to get elected, they kind of do the same thing. Here are the
Republicans` greatest hits on tax cuts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Read my lips:
no new taxes.

GEORGE W. BUSH, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you raise
taxes, you`re taking money out of the pockets of consumers.

RONALD REAGAN, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: By lowering
everyone`s tax rates all the way up the income scale, each of us will have
a greater incentive to climb higher, to excel, to help America grow.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don`t want to raise taxes
on anybody. I want to make sure that we make America an attractive place
for growing the economy and creating jobs.

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They are just taking
more money from small businesses and families and spending it. That
doesn`t work. It`s bad economics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Actually, it looks like Paul Ryan`s economics are wrong. A
nonpartisan arm of Congress tested the Republican theory that cutting taxes
grows the economy. They released the findings today. It`s not good for
Mitt Romney.

Take a look. George Herbert Walker Bush went back on his promise and
raised taxes back in 1990. Three years later, President Clinton raised the
top marginal tax rate. Look what happened. The GDP growth went up for
five years. In fact, it skyrocketed.

Growth peaked in the first quarter of the year 2000. That`s when
George W. Bush goes back to their old hit song "cut taxes." And look what
happened. Growth plummets and the Bush tax cuts got deeper in 2003 and the
economy went off the deep end. You can`t deny it.

But this is Romney`s new plan. He wants to reduce taxes even more
than President Bush did. And this research out today shows that Romney and
Republicans got it all wrong. They have been wrong for 20 years. Cutting
taxes is not going to help the economy and it might even hurt the economy.

"The New York Times" asked so-called budget expert Paul Ryan about
this research on tax cuts. The reporter even showed Ryan a similar chart
that I`m showing you tonight. Ryan said, "some of this is just the timing,
not the person." Really? The person and the policy don`t count? You
better believe they do. Ryan thinks that what this chart shows is just a
coincidence.

But the man who was in charge of his economic success says this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It`s arithmetic.
We simply cannot afford to give the reigns of government to someone who
will double down on trickle down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And here`s one more interesting fact in this research today.
The Republican tax cuts aren`t fair. People who make a million dollars or
more per year got a seven percent tax break when George W. Bush`s tax
breaks kicked in. Middle class Americans, what did they get? Well, they
got less than half of that.

Let`s turn to David Cay Johnston, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist
and author of "The Fine Print." Great to have you with us tonight, David
Cay. Will it help the economy if Mitt Romney cuts more taxes? Because
that`s what he`s out there saying. He wants to cut more taxes.

Bottom line, Americans want to know, is it going to help the economy
if he does?

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, "THE FINE PRINT": The evidence since 1945 is no,
it will hurt the economy, especially in recent years. What this study
shows, Ed, is that the top tiny group, the top one in 1,000 Americans, back
at the end of World War II, they got this much income. Now they get this
much income.

What cutting these tax rates is doing is it`s redistributing income
upwards and it`s not helping the vast majority of Americans at all.

SCHULTZ: I want to play this tape of Mitt Romney one more time. I`ll
remind our viewers that this was provided to "Mother Jones Magazine." It
was provided to "Mother Jones Magazine." It was recorded at a fundraiser
and Governor Romney did not know he was being recorded. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For three years, all everybody`s been told is
`don`t worry, we`ll take care of it.` How are you going to do it, in two
months before the elections, convince everybody you`ve got to take care of
yourself?

ROMNEY: Well, there are 47 percent of the people who will vote for
the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with
him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims,
who believe that government has a responsibility to care for them, who
believes they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you name
it.

But that`s an entitlement. Government should it give it to them. And
they will vote for this president no matter what. And the president starts
off with 48, 49 -- he starts off with a huge number. These are people who
pay no income tax. Forty seven percent of Americans pay no income tax.

So our message of low taxes doesn`t connect. He`ll be out there
talking about tax cuts for the rich. I mean, that`s what they sell every
four years. And so my job is not to worry about those people. I`ll never
convince to take personal responsibility and care for their lives. What I
have to do is convince the five to 10 percent in the center that are
independents, that are thoughtful, that look at voting one way or the other
depending upon, in some cases, emotion, whether they like the guy or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: David Cay, what about the 47 percent that Mr. Romney throws
out there that don`t pay federal taxes. He throws that out as if these 47
percent of Americans who don`t pay federal taxes, they are really the ones
who are screwing the country.

JOHNSTON: Well, first of all, it`s only for two years that that`s
true. It`s going to fall back into the 30s. If it weren`t for the
Republicans passing the Child Tax Credit, it would fall back to the low
30s. But the majority of people who fall in this category of not paying
federal income taxes are either elderly, which means they probably worked
their whole lives and are now retired, and he says -- Romney is saying that
they are not workers -- or they are workers who make less than 20,000
dollars a year, Ed, which tells you these are people who have crummy jobs
at crummy wages.

That`s who he is insulting, people who are working at low wages, or
who have worked their whole life and are retiring, because that`s most of
that 47 percent.

SCHULTZ: How important is it for the American people to grasp that a
tax cut isn`t always the best thing for the economy? I mean, I think most
Americans believe, gosh, if we cut taxes, we`re just going to have a better
economy because more people are going to have more money to spend. Clearly
it doesn`t turn out that way.

JOHNSTON: You know, Ed, it doesn`t. In my new book that comes out
tomorrow, that you kindly mentioned, there`s a chapter about how in my
neighborhood we voted to raise taxes. For every extra dollar of tax I pay,
I have a dollar and 80 cents more cash in my pocket. My book explains why.

Paying higher taxes can sometimes makes you better off if it buys
things in a group fashion and lowers the total price of some service or
good that you need.

SCHULTZ: Looking forward to reading it. David Cay Johnston, always
great to have you with us on THE ED SHOW. Thank you.

Coming up, Mitt Romney has the nerve to attack President Obama for
being too soft on China? Does this guy follow the news? The president
fights back with the facts and announces a new trade case against China.
Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio will weigh in on this and tell us exactly what
it means and what the Obama administration has done with China in the past.
We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. President Obama continues to
get tough on China over unfair trade practices. This cuts right to the
fabric of the middle class. At a Cincinnati rally earlier today, the
president announced his administration filed yet another trade case against
Beijing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Today my administration is launching a new action against
China, this one against illegal subsidies that encourage companies to ship
auto parts manufacturing jobs overseas. And we are going to stop it. It
is not right. It is against the rules and we will not let it stand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The case accuses China of providing one billion dollars
worth of illegal subsidies for auto parts it exports. These subsidies
caused two major problems here in the United States. They flood the
American market with cheap Chinese auto parts, undercutting our own
products. And they also encourage the outsourcing of American
manufacturing jobs to China.

By doing this, China is putting American auto jobs at risk. And it`s
exactly what President Obama is trying to stop.

Meanwhile, Mitt Romney`s desperate campaign is trying to make the
president look soft on China. They put out this commercial last week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seven times Obama could have stopped china`s
cheating. Seven times, he refused.

ROMNEY: It`s time to stand up to the cheaters and make sure we
protect jobs for the American people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barack Obama, failing to stop cheating.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Romney`s commercial is absolutely full of holes. President
Obama made that clear earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: We`ve brought more trade cases against China in one term than
the previous administration did in two. And every case we brought that`s
been decided, we won.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Where are the fact checkers? President Obama has done a
number of things to crack down on China and Mitt Romney hasn`t always
agreed with them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: When Governor Romney said that stopping unfair surges in
Chinese tires would be bad for America, bad for our workers, we ignored his
advice and we got over 1,000 Americans back to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: And in 2009, President Obama put a tax on Chinese tires,
putting 1,000 Americans back to work. In his book, Romney slammed
President Obama for that move, calling it, quote, "decidedly bad for our
nation and our workers."

On top of all of this, Romney`s record on China is clear. While at
Bain Capital, he profited off companies shipping jobs to China. According
to "the Boston Globe" investments on Romney`s behalf are in Chinese
manufacturing companies that profit from unfair trade practices.

You got the facts. Now you can decide.

For more, let`s turn to Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio. Congressman,
great to have you with us tonight. These simply are the facts. What do
you make of Romney attacking the president for being too soft on China?

REP. TIM RYAN (D), OHIO: I got to tell you, it`s actually laughable.
Having been on the ground the last few years through the Obama
administration, watching what he did with tires, that tariff that he put on
created jobs in northwest Ohio, just a little bit south of Toledo.

He also put tariffs on steel tubing that was getting dumped in the
country from China. And that tariff that he put on led to almost a 700
million dollar steel mill being created here in Youngstown, Ohio. For
anybody who wants to take a look at it, I`m listening to you. Tomorrow,
I`m going to take a picture of this new steel mill that with the help of
Obama`s tariffs was located here. I will Tweet it @TimRyan, so everybody
in the country can see what Obama`s policies have done for Ohio.

SCHULTZ: How dangerous are these subsidies that China is giving to
its auto sector? Could this slow down the momentum of what we have seen in
your state of Ohio and in Michigan when it comes to auto manufacturing and
all the domino effect it has on the different industries that come together
to make automobiles work in this country.

: Absolutely. We the auto industry. One in every eight jobs in Ohio
is directly or indirectly related to the automobile industry. We have a
plan here, 4,500 jobs. But that`s just scratching the surface here in
Youngstown. You go right down the supply chain, you have the seats, you
have the logistics --

SCHULTZ: Aren`t the Chinese countering this with the subsidies?

(CROSS TALK)

RYAN: Absolutely. Absolutely. It`s been damaging to the economy now
not just Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, but yes, they are cheating. That`s
basically what they are doing. They are subsidizing auto parts to come
into America and undercut the American companies. And a lot of these are
small, midsize companies. These aren`t huge businesses. They are in the
auto supply chain. They supported communities for a long, long time.

These are the small business people that Mitt Romney talks about.
I`ll tell you, if his book would have come out a couple months later, he
would have been against the steel tubing tariffs that the president put on.
This is damaging. The president is acting forcefully. He is moving in the
right direction. On top of this straight auto jobs from the auto
companies, he`s now protecting the parts supplier.

I think it`s a no brainer if you`re a small business manufacturer in
Ohio who you should vote for.

SCHULTZ: Congressman Tim Ryan of Ohio with us tonight. I have to ask
you about this Romney tape. He didn`t know he was being recorded behind
closed doors with donors and what not. Your thoughts on his comments and
what he said?

RYAN: I tell you, you get mad, but I think it`s sad. I think it`s
sad that a candidate for a major party in America, running for president is
so insensitive and so disconnected to what average families are going
through. Those are Medicaid recipients, Ed. Those are people who have
kids that have Down Syndrome --

(CROSS TALK)

SCHULTZ: What does it tell you about his character and who he really
is?

RYAN: He`s not one of us. He`s just disconnected from reality. I
tell you, he doesn`t connect to any average person because these are the
struggles and the programs that average people rely upon in Ohio and rely
upon in America. It`s coldhearted. I mean, there`s no really other way to
say it than he`s disconnected and it`s coldhearted.

I don`t think there`s any place. It`s sad that there`s a room full of
people that have been so successful, and nobody in that room thought that,
you know, this maybe is a little insensitive and maybe there are some
people that may need some help here.

SCHULTZ: It`s class warfare, no question about it. Very insensitive.
Ohio Congressman Tim Ryan, great to have you with us on THE ED SHOW.
Thanks so much.

Paul Ryan embraces the radical ideology of the Christian Right at the
Values Voters Summit over the weekend. The Reverend Barry Lynn will weigh
in on that. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Tonight, in our survey, I asked is the video of Mitt Romney
speaking about the poor at a fundraiser proof of what he really believes
about the poor in this country? Ninety eight percent of you say yes; two
percent of you say no.

Coming up, Rick Santorum admits the truth: Values Voters aren`t too
concerned with the facts and information. The Reverend Barry Lynn will
join me. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: In the Big Finish tonight, it was a gathering of right
wingers, conspiracy theorists and even one self professed former terrorist.
The annual Values Voters Summit was held over the weekend. The event is
run by the Family Research Council, an organization recently labeled as a
hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center for its anti-gay ideology.

And the Republican presidential ticket warmly embraced it. Attendees
got Mitt Romney via video, and even better, Paul Ryan in the flesh. Ryan
called Romney a defender of marriage and hit the president on abortion by
pedaling the same old tired, right wing lies.

Other speakers included Michele Bachmann, Governor "Ultrasound" Bob
McDonnell of Virginia, and Rick Santorum. Santorum pointed out, with pride
I might add, that a true Values Voter never lets facts or information get
in the way of their gut instincts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICK SANTORUM (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We will never have
the media on our side, ever in this country. We will never have the elite,
smart people on our side, because they believe they should have the power
to tell you what to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Right wing pundit Gary Bauer riled up the crowd, urging them
to get out and vote to defeat President Obama and his supporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY BAUER, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN VALUES: There will be a lot of people
to vote for the president. There`s a lot of people out now around America
who depend on checks from their fellow taxpayers being in the mailbox every
day. They will turn out in massive numbers.

My prediction is after all the votes are counted, even the dead votes
of Democrats in Chicago, Detroit and Cleveland, I predict that we will win,
that this national nightmare will be over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Let`s turn to Reverend Barry Lynn, executive director of
Americans United for Separation of Church and State, who obviously was at
that conference as an observer, not a participant, I might add. Barry,
what does this tell us about the Republican ticket, that they proudly
embrace this kind of talk?

REV. BARRY LYNN, AMERICANS UNITED FOR SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE:
They are absolutely desperate. There`s no question that what they need now
is to convince Evangelical Christians that even if Mitt Romney isn`t
completely really, necessarily a Christian, he`s Christian enough to vote
for over President Obama.

I wrote in "the Washington Post" last winter, when push comes to
shove, this election is going to come down not just to the economy, but to
religion. What we heard was speaker after speaker and workshop after
workshop, is how do we bring these hot button social issues back, put them
front and center, so that the core conservative voters will know who to
vote for. They are absolutely desperate.

SCHULTZ: Is it true that they held clinics to explain to people at
the pulpit in front of their congregations on Sunday, and how to maneuver
around the tax laws in this country to make sure that they could get their
political message across?

LYNN: Absolutely. There was a speaker at one of the workshops who
actually said, you should defy the IRS. You should violate the tax code
that prohibits churches and other charities from endorsing or opposing a
candidate, using those church dollars. Just ignore the law, he said. Just
do it anyway. Let them come and get you.

So in each and every way, they want to get voter turnout, whether it`s
legal or illegal, because they know that they`ve got to get this core of
red meat conservative right wingers out to the polls or it`s all over.

SCHULTZ: We saw, I understand, Paul Ryan really turn to the right
over the weekend. Would you agree with that?

LYNN: Yes, there`s no doubt about it. Paul Ryan went out there,
talked about abortion as if it was the single most important issue. For
that crowd, it certainly is, because they stand up and applaud wildly every
time he says anything about it.

He doesn`t care to talk about the poor. He doesn`t care to talk about
how to help public schools. It`s all privatize, religionize and get with
the program. That whole atmosphere, Ed, didn`t just say vote for Romney.
It said God wants you to vote for Romney, and God would vote for him
himself if he were a registered voter.

SCHULTZ: Reverend, I have to ask you about the tape that we have
played a number of times on this program tonight about Mitt Romney, where
he said behind closed doors, "my job is not to worry about those people.
I`ll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and
care for their lives." He`s talking about those who obviously are on
government assistance. Does this parallel with what you heard this
weekend?

LYNN: Absolutely. It`s almost a paraphrase of what Gary Bauer told
in that little clip that you just played. It`s there are two kinds of
people, the people who just take and then the people they take from. That
is not the way America functions. That is not the way Christians, by the
way, really understand what ought to be happening.

SCHULTZ: Reverend Barry Lynn, thanks for joining us tonight. That`s
THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts now.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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