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updated 5/9/2012 3:47:09 PM ET 2012-05-09T19:47:09

Guests: Richard Wolffe, Howard Fineman, Joan Walsh, David Cay Johnston


ED SCHULTZ, HOST: Good evening, Americans. And welcome to THE ED
SHOW tonight from New York.

Mitt Romney`s team, I`ll tell you, they`re a dandy. They lied about
the war on women, the automobile loan and the death of the world`s number
one terrorist. Tonight, I`m going to set the record straight.

This is THE ED SHOW -- let`s get to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I`ll just recommend
that everybody take a look at people`s previous statements in terms of
whether they thought it was appropriate to go into Pakistan and take out
bin Laden.

SCHULTZ (voice-over): Mitt Romney is running away from his rhetoric
on Osama bin Laden, and he`s digging a deeper hole in the process.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Even Jimmy Carter would have
been given that order.

SCHULTZ: Richard Wolffe on Romney`s Osama bin disaster.

OBAMA: Time after time, the Republicans have gotten together and
they`ve said no.

SCHULTZ: The president makes the case to workers. Republicans are
the problem.

OBAMA: I send them a jobs bill that would have put hundreds of
thousands of construction workers back to work repairing our roads, our
bridges, schools, transit systems. They still said no. Howard Fineman, on
the president`s big speech on jobs.

SCHULTZ: It was another war on women train wreck for Republicans on
"Meet the Press."

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: It`s about policy and whether or not you
want to fix some of the structural discrimination that women really do
face, that Republicans don`t believe is happening.

SCHULTZ: Salon`s Joan Walsh has the latest.

And Paul Ryan has a dirty little secret in his budget and the
corporations love it. David Cay Johnston on the tax shelter plan in the
Republican budget that no one is talking about.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHULTZ: Good to have you with us. Thanks for watching.

Republicans have spent the last few days relentlessly attacking the
president for saying made the right call when he ordered the raid on Osama
bin Laden. They`ve have also hammered the president`s team for questioning
whether Mitt Romney would have made the same decision. But the president
is not backing down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I just recommend that everybody take a look at people`s
previous statements in terms of whether they thought it was appropriate to
go into Pakistan and take out bin Laden. I assume that people meant what
they said when they said it. That`s been, at least, my practice. I said
that I`d go after bin Laden if we had a clear shot at him, and I did.

If there are others who have said one thing and now suggest they`d do
something else, then I`d go ahead and let them explain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHUTLZ: The president was responding to a remark Mitt Romney made
earlier today on the campaign trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Would you have gone after bin Laden?

ROMNEY: Of course.

REPORTER: You would have given the order, Governor?

ROMNEY: Well, of course. Even Jimmy Carter would have given that
order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Nice cheap shot. Mitt Romney tried to use former President
Jimmy Carter as a distraction. This is what Mitt Romney said about bin
Laden during his 2008 campaign. "It`s not worth moving heaven and earth,
spending billions of dollars just to try to catch one person."

To set the record straight, Jimmy Carter gave that order. He approved
the helicopter rescue of the American hostages in Iran. The failure of
that mission really raised the stakes of the bin Laden raid which was
called on by President Obama.

President Obama made good on a promise that he made on the campaign
trail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: If we have bin Laden in our sights and the Pakistani
government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then I think that we
have to act, and we will take them out.

We will kill bin Laden. We will crush al Qaeda. That has to be our
biggest national security priority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Right after he took office, he told Leon Panetta to make
finding bin Laden his to priority. He refocused the intelligence community
on finding bin Laden after this guy dismantled the bin Laden unit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I don`t know where he is. You
know, I just don`t spend that much time on it, to really be honest with
you. We hadn`t heard much from him. And I wouldn`t necessarily say he`s
at the center of any command structure.

And, you know, again, I don`t know where he is. I repeat what I said.
I`m truly not that concerned about him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: History will prove George W. Bush took his eye off the ball.
Six months after the attacks, Bush had already thrown the towel in finding
bin Laden, which could explain why conservatives don`t want President Obama
talking about how he succeeded where Bush failed. Bush was too focused on
his next project, invading Iraq, which he immediately politicized. W.
openly celebrated the end of major combat operations in Iraq after mission
accomplished, 4,347 more troops died, bringing the total to 4,486.

Conservatives want to turn national security into a political
football, criticizing President Obama and anyone else who says taking out
bin Laden was the right thing to do.

Romney advisor Ed Gillespie broke out the hypocrisy this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ED GILLESPIE, ROMNEY ADVISOR: This is one of reasons President Obama
has become one of the most divisive presidents in American history. He
took something that was a unifying event for all Americans, an event that
Governor Romney congratulated him and the military and the intelligence
analyst in our government for completing the mission in terms of killing
bin Laden. And he`s managed to turn it into a divisive partisan political
attack. I think people will see it as a sign of a desperate campaign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: You know, that isn`t how Ed Gillespie felt back in 2004 when
he was the chairman of the Republican National Committee and helped push
the argument that electing John Kerry would make this country less safe.

The Bush team went as far as saying if you didn`t vote for W, there
would be another terrorist attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: It`s absolutely essential
that a couple of weeks from today, on November 2nd, we make the right
choice. If we got the wrong choice, the danger is that we may get hit
again. And we`ll be hit in a way that will be devastating in the
standpoint of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Cheney`s fear-mongering was just a tip of the iceberg. No
one was better at dividing America than the Bushes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AD NARRATOR: In an increasingly dangerous world, even after the first
terrorist attack on America, John Kerry and the liberals in Congress voted
to slash America`s intelligence operations by $6 billion -- cuts so deep
they would have weakened America`s defenses, and weakness attracts those
who are waiting to do America harm.

BUSH: I`m George W. Bush and I approve this message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Today, Republicans are hoping we have national security
amnesia.

They want you to forget about all the fear-mongering they did in 2004
and they want you to forget one year ago, President Obama delivered on his
biggest campaign promise to capture or kill Osama bin Laden.

Well, Romney has never made a decision remotely as significant in his
entire political career. His only foreign policy experience is vacationing
in France and hiding cash in the Cayman and Swiss bank accounts. But I
think Mitt Romney can clear this whole thing up if he just comes out and
gives a speech on foreign policy and explains what experience he really
has. If he can`t do it, maybe Ed Gillespie can come out and tell us how
good their candidate is when it comes to foreign policy. What has he done?

The only 3:00 a.m. phone call that Mitt Romney has ever gotten is
probably from the dogcatcher. The bottom line here is, is that Mitt Romney
is probably the least experienced candidate that the Republicans have ever
put forward for foreign policy. That`s why they`re trying to degrade every
move that President Obama has made. And they`ll take out more commercials
to say it.

Get your cell phones out. I want to know what you think. Tonight`s
question: who has done more to divide the country over national security?

Text A for Republicans, text B for Democrats, to 622639. You can go
to our blog at Ed.MSNBC.com and leave a comment. You ought to be able to
do that. This is a hot topic. Ands, of course, we will bring the results
later in the show.

Joining me tonight is MSNBC political analyst Richard Wolffe.

Richard, good to have you with us tonight.

RICHARD WOLFFE, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: Thanks, Ed.

SCHULTZ: Why do you think they are, for lack of a better term,
dogging the Obama administration so much on national security? Is it
because Mitt Romney can`t speak to this with any experience at all?

WOLFFE: I think there`s something deeper going on here, Ed, and
that`s -- you know, for many years, the Bush administration, conservatives,
Republicans have felt they had a monopoly on this idea of having a strong
foreign policy. They thought -- remember, there are lots of conservatives
out there, conservative commentators, politicians who said a year ago that
this wasn`t really because of President Obama. This was really the result
of the Bush policies and their intelligence efforts.

They want the credit. They don`t feel that this president or
Democrats in general should have any credit for having a strong foreign
policy. In fact, the premise of the entire Republican contest was that
this president has appeased America`s enemies. He`s engaged in working to
help America`s enemies and undermine its allies.

They said that time and time again. That`s what Romney has said. And
this just doesn`t fit. The facts don`t fit to what they want or what they
think the reality is.

SCHULTZ: Where does this all fit on the hypocrisy scale for
Republicans? This has been a big weekend for lies and distortions. This,
of course, is one of the biggest ones.

But where does this fit on the hypocrisy scale in your opinion?

WOLFFE: Ed, of course, it`s hypocritical. But there`s actually
something far worse than hypocrisy going on here.

You know, there -- underlying this, there is actually, for a start,
the kind of politics that we saw through the last eight years of the Bush
administration and through this whole Republican contest which is the
politics of fear, right? It`s not just about tone.

Say you agree with their premise, which I don`t, but say you agree
there`s some politics going on around this anniversary for the Obama folks.
Let`s compare the politics, shall we? You`ve got a concerted effort
through 2004 and beyond saying that President Bush was going to keep us
safe even when the evidence from Iraq and elsewhere was that we were less
safe.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

WOLFFE: There was the idea that fear was what we needed to expand the
government. They say it`s such a terrible thing when it expands, on
homeland security, on illegal and unwarranted wiretapping. You have a
whole range of things where the politics is fear. The politicization of
the war on terror was expanded.

It`s not hypocrisy. It`s being wrong on the policy.

SCHULTZ: I think the president is doing a great job by reminding the
American people of just how big a lift this was and how he came in and
refocused the entire team ongoing out and getting the world`s number one
terrorist.

Now, the question is, is Mitt Romney going to be able to shake the
etch-a-sketch, so to speak and really live up to his comments that he made
back several years ago when he was running in 2007 and 2008? Or is this
going to haunt him throughout the campaign?

WOLFFE: Well, what Mitt Romney has said, he`s made it clear that he
has a very low bar for military action in Iran. He actually thinks that
withdrawal from Iraq was a complete unmitigated disaster.

Remember it`s not just about the order to kill here, the order to go
ahead with the mission with bin Laden. It was having a singular focus on
degrading al Qaeda`s core leadership. That could only happen because this
president was winding down the operations in Iraq and devoted the right
people to going after al Qaeda`s leadership.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

WOLFFE: So, the question is, are his national security priorities
correct? And given what we`ve seen of his rhetoric on Iran, the chances
are he wants to go back into war at the slightest drop of a hint of
aggression.

SCHULTZ: I don`t think Mitt Romney understands the gravity of some of
the decisions that are made in the Oval Office. I think he owes Jimmy
Carter an apology. I mean, Jimmy Carter put lives on the line and made a
tough call and then had to abort the mission.

And Mitt Romney, for him to say that, you know, Jimmy Carter would
have made that call. What do you make of Romney`s cheap shot?

I mean, I make it`s just that. It`s low rent. It`s cheap shot.
Romney`s never been there and never done that. He doesn`t know what it`s
like to make a decision like that.

To invoke a former president and his action and to degrade him like
that. Your thoughts. Richard? I haven`t seen this before.

WOLFFE: Jimmy Carter is -- look, he`s a prickly character and so,
people, and he lost an election, so people find it easy to kick him around.
But here`s a president that had a 10 times better jobs record than
President Bush did. He was responsible for Camp David. That`s not a bad
record for anyone.

Certainly for someone who`s had one term as a Massachusetts governor,
it`s time to pay a little bit more respect than that.

SCHULTZ: Yes. Richard, always great to have you with us here on THE
ED SHOW tonight. Thank you.

Remember to answer tonight`s question at the bottom of the screen and
share your thoughts on Twitter @EdShow. We want to know what you think.

Coming up, Republicans say President Obama can`t run on his
accomplishments. The president is proving them dead wrong. Howard Fineman
is here to talk about the latest Obama campaign strategy.

And everyone is talking about how Apple gets away with paying so
little in taxes. Congressman Paul Ryan`s budget would make it even easier
for big companies to avoid taxes. And no one is talk about it. It`s that
dirty little secret in the Ryan plan. David Cay Johnston joins me for the
discussion.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Coming up, President Obama goes on offense and is calling
out Republican obstruction. We`ll play his new ad and I`ll talk to Howard
Fineman of "The Huffington Post" on that subject coming up.

Rachel Maddow, well, she takes on Republicans claiming there`s no pay
gap between men and women? Joan Walsh and I will give commentary. Weigh
in on that.

And the president takes on the GOP talking points at the White House
correspondents` dinner. We`ll play some of the highlights. They`re great.

Share your thoughts on Twitter using #EdShow.

We`re right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: President Obama made his pitch to the American worker today.
He spoke to the members of the Building Trades Union about the Republican
anti-labor agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Over the last year, I sent Congress a whole series of jobs
bills to put people to work, to put your members back to work. And time
after time, the Republicans have gotten together and they`ve said no.

The easiest bill to pass in Washington used to be getting roads and
bridges built because it`s not like only Democrats are allowed to use these
things. Everybody is permitted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Republicans spent the last three years obstructing the
president`s economic agenda. Now, the GOP says President Obama has no
record to run on. But the Obama team is proving them wrong with a seven-
minute campaign ad highlighting the president`s accomplishments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AD NARRATOR: The president`s stimulus plan saved up to 4.2 million
jobs, including teachers, construction workers, police and firefighters
working to build a stronger America. When a flag ship of the American
economy was going down, his auto rescue forced companies and workers to
retool and restructure saving 1.1 million jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The final two minutes of the ad is a rolling list of
accomplishments. It focuses on nearly 30 policy achievements. The ad
doesn`t shy away from calling out Republicans from stopping many of these
goals.

(BEGI NVIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Put me in the no
column.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: Vote no.

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), MAJORITY LEADER: Vote no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Republicans are getting wrap as the party of no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yesterday, in the end, not a single Republican
voted for the bill. And apparently, the merits of the legislation had
little to do with it.

MCCONNELL: Our top political priority over the next two years should
be to deny President Obama a second term.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: It would be one thing if they were acting on behalf of the
American people but they have opposed plans the American people have
favored. Take for instance the jobs bill.

When the president introduced it, 63 percent of the country was in
favor of it. A tax on income over $1 million was proposed to pay for the
jobs bill. As recently as February, 65 percent of Americans supported the
millionaire`s tax. But Republicans said no to all of it.

The GOP is protecting .2 percent of the American people at the expense
of the rest of the country of what the president was talking about today.

But, Republicans have also attacked the very people who need the
economic security. President Obama reminded the union crowd today about
the attack on the middle class.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: If you ask them what`s their big economic plan in addition to
tax cuts for rich folks -- it`s dismantling your unions. After all you`ve
done to build and protect the middle class, they make the argument you`re
responsible for the problems facing the middle class.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The Republican strategy has been economic obstruction and
middle class destruction. President Obama is right to call them out on it.
I find it interesting he goes to the union and speaks like this in such a
frank manner -- because there`s a lot of union people who just don`t vote
Democrat. In fact, there`s a pretty healthy percentage of them.

All this talk about how the unions are in the back pockets of the
Democrats, if they vote their own economic interest, a lot of them will
make the turn in November. That`s what the Obama administration is
counting on.

Let`s turn to Howard Fineman, NBC News political analyst and editorial
director of "The Huffington Post" Media Group.

Howard, great to have you with us tonight.

HOWARD FINEMAN, HUFFIINGTON POST: Hi, Ed.

SCHUTLZ: How does this play in states like Ohio and Pennsylvania?

FINEMAN: Well, first of all, let me say as far as the union workers,
in the previous segment you were talking about Barack Obama as commander-
in-chief -- that plays there, by the way, before we get to economics. I
just thought I`d mention.

SCHULTZ: Sure.

FINEMAN: As far as the economy is concerned, David Axelrod, who`s
basically running the campaign out of Chicago, told over the weekend that
he thinks there`s more spots of good news around the country in terms of
the economy than people inside the Beltway yet have grasped. You know,
we`re about six months behind the curve at least, if not decades. And I
think they are hoping -- the Obama campaign is hoping that by bragging
about their accomplishments.

You know, there`s some dubious claims in that seven-minute ad, to be
sure. But there are a lot of good things that the president has done and
attempted to do. It`s worth taking that positive tone, they feel, because
that`s going to help bring out whatever other positive news there is around
here in the country. And they are hoping by the summer and the fall, that
the American people will understand that.

SCHULTZ: Well, the president was talking about infrastructure
spending today and brought up another president. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Ronald Reagan once said that rebuilding our infrastructure is
common sense -- an investment in tomorrow that we need to make today.
Ronald Reagan said that. That great socialist, Ronald Reagan, couldn`t get
through a Republican primary these days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Very profound point there. Can the president and the
Democrats win over these Reagan independents, so to speak? These Reagan
Democrats or these Republicans that normally say they`re independent but
then they slide to the right when it comes time to vote.

I mean, this is really who I think the president has got to win over.
Your thoughts.

FINEMAN: Right. Well, it`s hard to do but he`s got to try. He`s got
to spend a lot of the campaign trying. As I said, foreign policy
commander-in-chief is part of it.

But the notion that the investments that were made, the efforts that
were made are beginning to pay off and there`s tangible evidence of it, is
important. I thought what was significant about the seven-minute ad, Ed,
is that it didn`t mention the millionaire`s tax, it didn`t mention the
Buffett Rule.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

FINEMAN: It wasn`t playing on the populist theme. It was saying,
look, there are things we have done here, there are things that help you,
that help your family, that will help you and your family in the future
that are beginning to take hold, that were beginning to get traction on.
That`s classic incumbent`s pitch for a second term.

And the fact that -- it`s an interesting fact is that the Obama
campaign felt there was enough of case to make that they should make it
right away. On tactical grounds, I completely agree with them. If they
don`t brag about what there is to brag about, nobody else is going to do it
for them.

SCHULTZ: Well, there`s going to be an avalanche of negativity with
all those money thrown around. They`re going to have to brag a little more
than normal.

FINEMAN: Exactly.

SCHULTZ: A column on "The Washington Post" this weekend, by two
political centrists blamed Republicans for Washington gridlock. Is this a
convincing argument for middle class Americans?

FINEMAN: Well, I saw that article and the guys who wrote that are
very serious people. They are pretty even handed. I think it`s a case
that President Obama is making, will make and I think it will have some
success in making because you show the clips of Mitch McConnell and John
Boehner and the others saying essentially, no, that our entire theory is to
stop President Obama, stop his programs and his platform and so on.

They have been quite frank about their sort of oppositional approach.
Paul Ran has had an interesting plan or here. There`s been a Republican
proposal here and there.

But, by and large, the Republicans have defined themselves in
opposition to Barack Obama. They`ve been very frank about it.

So, again, tactically, the president is going to call them on it and
dry to deepen that impression of blame as the campaign gets is under way.
It`s clear what the strategy is.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

FINEMAN: Blame the Republicans for obstructionism, claim credit for
whatever economic successes there have been, and attack the heck out of
Mitt Romney. You saw it all on display today.

SCHULTZ: Howard, great to have you with us. Thanks so much.

FINEMAN: Thanks.

SCHULTZ: A Republican strategist and former Romney advisor says women
are not paid less than men. Rachel serves him the facts. Joan Walsh will
weigh in.

And President Obama saves the American automobile industry, so the
Romney camp says it was Mitt Romney`s idea. You don`t want to miss this
one. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Republicans are trying to deny there`s a GOP war on women.
Now they are trying to deny that women have been paid less for equal work.
Women make just 77 cents for every dollar a man makes in America.

Yet GOP consultant Alex Castellanos and Republican Congressman Cathy
McMorris Rodgers went on "Meet the Press" yesterday to challenge the fact.
McMorris Rodgers is so confident in her beliefs, she actually voted against
the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act. Unfortunately, should I say, for her,
fortunately, for those who seek the truth, my colleague Rachel Maddow was
here to set them both straight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC ANCHOR: The Romney campaign wants to talk about
women and the economy. The -- women in this country still make 77 cents on
the dollar for what men make. So if -- women don`t make less than men?

CASTELLANOS: Actually, if you start looking at the numbers, Rachel,
there are lots of reasons for that.

MADDOW: Don`t tell me the reasons part. Do women make less than men
for doing the same work?

CASTELLANOS: No, because --

(CROSS TALK)

MADDOW: Wow. OK. We`re working from different facts.

CASTELLANOS: Men work an average of 44 hours a week. Women work 41
hours a week. Men go into professions like engineering, science and math
that earn more.

MADDOW: This is not a math is hard part of this conversation. No, it
isn`t.

CASTELLANOS: Yes, it is.

DAVID GREGORY, "MEET THE PRESS: Let Rachel frame it.

(CROSS TALK)

MADDOW: Right now, women are making 77 cents on the dollar for what
men are making.

CASTELLANOS: That`s not true.

GREGORY: Let Rachel make her point.

CASTELLANOS: Then every greedy businessman in America would hire only
women, save 25 percent, and be hugely profitable.

MADDOW: I feel like this is actually -- it`s weird that you`re
interrupting me and not letting me make my point, because we get along so
well. So let me make my point.

CASTELLANOS: I will.

MADDOW: But it is important, I think. The interruption is important
because now we know, at least from both of your perspectives, that women
are not fairing worse than men in the economy, that women aren`t getting
paid less for equal work. I think that`s a serious basis -- a difference
in factual understanding of the world.

But given that some of us believe that women are getting paid less
than men for doing the same work. There`s something called the Fair Pay
Act. There was a court ruling that said the statute of limitations, if
you`re getting paid less than a man, if you`re subject to discrimination,
starts before you know that discrimination is happening, effectively
cutting off your recourse to the courts.

You didn`t know you were being discriminated against, you can`t go.
The first law passed by this administration is the Fair Pay Act, to remedy
that court ruling. Mitt Romney campaign put you out as a surrogate to talk
-- to sure up people`s feelings about this issue after they could not say
whether or not Mitt Romney would have signed that bill.

You`re supposed to make us feel better about it. You voted against
the Fair Pay Act. It`s not about whether or not you have a female
surrogate. It`s about policy and whether or not you want to fix some of
the structural discrimination that women really do face, that Republicans
don`t believe is happening.

GREGORY: It`s policy is the argument.

CASTELLANOS: It`s policy. I love how passionate you are. I wish you
were as right about what you were saying as you are passionate about.

MADDOW: That`s really condescending. I mean, this is stylistic
issue. My passion on this issue is actually me making a factual argument
on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Let`s bring in Joan Walsh, editor at large, Salon.com.
Joan, great to have you with us tonight. Quite the volley there. Rachel
was terrific. The U.S. Census Bureau reports among people who worked year
round and full-time in 2009, men earned a median of 47,100 dollars and
women earned 36,300 dollars, or 77 cents for every dollar earned by men.

I don`t know what this dude Alex doesn`t get, but he calls this an old
discredited liberal myth. Why doesn`t the Republican party just admit the
number, because that`s what it is, and say we have some work to do, instead
of fighting this? Your thoughts.

JOAN WALSH, SALON.COM: It`s a fascinating question. I mean, there
were so many things about what he did, Ed, that need to be commented on.
But one of them, the most hilarious, was starting out by saying well,
actually, no, it`s not true, and then quickly saying it is true, but there
are reasons.

So you know, they are trying to have it both ways desperately. The
facts are exactly as Rachel laid them out. Now you know and I know you can
break down individual cohorts of workers and things don`t -- things look a
little bit different. There is a pay gap. It`s big. It`s troublesome.
And they don`t want to admit it.

SCHULTZ: Well, Castellanos was trying to say hours worked, that men
work longer than women.

WALSH: Right.

SCHULTZ: Look, it is about pay. Mitt Romney needs to square himself
with the American people on this. Would he vote or would he move to change
the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act? This is a fundamental question now going
into this? Where does he stand on women in the workplace? The laws
namesake, Lilly Ledbetter, she`s not buying it. She says -- she was up in
New Hampshire campaigning for the president today and said "that doesn`t
mean he won`t because he has been known to flip-flop quite a bit."

Well said. It would seem to me that Romney`s got to be clear on this
on how he feels about this law and what he would do. What do you think?

WALSH: Yes. Even if you say that the gab is smaller than it is, even
if you have a different set of facts, why wouldn`t you ban discrimination?
And why wouldn`t you create mechanisms like Lilly Ledbetter does to enforce
those laws against discrimination.

That`s what`s going on. Look, even if Alex is right and men do work
marginally more than women, that would mean there`d be like a six point pay
gap, not a 23 point pay gap. And the other point that they make all the
time, women want flexibility. Women do pay disproportionately for having
children and for taking care of children. That is sexism as well.

So however you want to explain it or slice it or dice it, it all comes
down to sexism. And they just won`t admit it.

SCHULTZ: I was waiting for the Romney campaign today to make a
statement saying, Alex Castellanos, he doesn`t speak for us. That`s how
deep I think they`re into this. And how do the Republicans make up ground
with women at this point, when they have exchanges like that?

WALSH: Well, right. Women across America, I watched Twitter and
Facebook explode in joy when Rachel slapped him down. I mean, he really
was a condescending jerk. You know, we`ve got -- we`ve all got to
discredit Hilary Rosen for what she said about Ann Romney. If the world
were equal and Democrats had to do what Republicans do, Mitt Romney would
have to answer for such a condescending reaction.

SCHULTZ: Joan, great to have you with us. Joan Walsh, Salon.com,
thank you.

There`s a lot more coming up in the next half hour of THE ED SHOW.
Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They went through that managed bankruptcy process.
It`s exactly what Mitt Romney told them to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The Romney Etch a Sketch is getting a work out. He`s lying
about the auto loan and we`re calling him out.

Paul Ryan wants big business to be able to hide even more money
offshore. David Cay Johnston has the report.

And the president had us rolling in the aisles this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: In my first term, we ended the war in Iraq. In my second
term, I will win the war on Christmas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: We`ll tell you why his comedy routine was even better than
you thought.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. There`s a provision tucked
away in the Paul Ryan budget and it`s getting virtually no attention. The
Ryan Plan, which of course the Republicans voted on -- the Ryan Plan would
grease the skids for major corporations to outsource profits, so they can
get away with not paying their fair share of taxes. Sound familiar?

Here`s an example of how easily this is done under the current system.
Look no further than Apple Computers. Apple has offices in Ireland, the
Netherlands, Luxembourg and the British Virgin Islands, to take full
advantage of tax loopholes, according to the "New York Times." It`s all
legal, of course.

There`s even a cool name for avoiding all those taxes. The tax
accountants call it a Double Irish with a Dutch Sandwich. The bottom line
is a company like Wal-Mart pays an effective tax rate of 24 percent. But
Apple pays 9.8 percent.

The Republican budget guru, Congressman Paul Ryan of Wisconsin,
chairman of the House Budget Committee, would make it even easier for
bigger corporations to outsource profits and hide income from the Internal
Revenue Service. Ryan`s plan would introduce a so-called territorial tax
system, exempting offshore profits from U.S. income tax.

Let`s turn to David Cay Johnston, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist
and columnist for "Reuters," and author of the book "Free Lunch."

Boy, I tell you what, this would be a "Free Lunch." You got the right
title there, David Cay. We know what these companies are doing. It`s been
well documented. But what would this territorial tax do, which is in this
Ryan Plan, which the Republicans voted on? Where would this take us?

DAVID CAY JOHNSTON, "REUTERS": Well, what it would encourage
companies to do is to take all their intellectual property that they
haven`t moved and anything else they can out of country, so that they earn
a dollar here in the U.S. and they show it to their shareholders, and then
they may magically send it to the Cayman Islands and it disappears to the
IRS.

So even if they are making things here in the U.S., they`ll be able to
move profits out of the country by having their intellectual property out
of the country. Secondly, if they find a place that has similar rules,
then you move the jobs offshore and you can still earn tax free profits.

SCHULTZ: This would really grease the skids for more outsourcing of
jobs, would it not?

JOHNSTON: Absolutely, Ed. Here is the magic words you need to hear
from somebody who really wants to reform the system. No more separate
company accounting. That`s the phrase to remember. To the tax man, these
companies are thousands of companies, not one company. So they have
different tax rules.

But if they are treated as a single company -- no multiple company
accounting, only single company accounting, then all of that game playing
can stop.

SCHULTZ: This could rob the United States -- and I say rob. I think
rob is the correct word here. You make a dollar on our soil with American
workers, you got to pay tax on that profit. This, of course, in the Ryan
Plan, the territorial tax, hasn`t gotten any attention whatsoever. We got
to have a big discussion on it.

This is robbing the treasury. How damaging would this be?

JOHNSTON: It could be very devastating to us. Here is an interesting
thing to think about, Ed. From 1961 to 2011 -- that`s half a century --
the amount of the economy -- the corporate income tax fell by 2.8
percentage points. It`s now only 1.2 percent of the economy. Social
Security taxes went up by almost exactly the amount that the corporate
income tax fell.

So it`s working people. It`s not executives. It`s not companies.
It`s working people who have made up for the corporate income tax. Those
guys` goal is to get it to zero.

SCHULTZ: Well, keep in mind, the Ryan Plan passed in the House. It
will never see the light of day in the Senate. But this is where the
Republicans want to go if they get power. They will go right down. This
will grease the skids of the corporations. They will get their pockets
lined with corporate donations.

This is how the game is going to work. Of course, Mitt Romney says,
hey, he loves the Ryan Plan. He called it a marvelous budget, a marvelous
plan. Now according to the Citizens for Tax Justice, the Ryan Plan would
cut on the richest 10 percent and raise taxes on the bottom 90 percent, and
reduce revenue by two trillion dollars over 10 years. Do you believe those
numbers?

JOHNSTON: Oh, yes, absolutely. I did my own less sophisticated set
of numbers and came up with a similar conclusion. This is a redistribution
plan. Take from the many, give to the already rich. The Republicans, Ed,
have told us that they know America`s economic problem. It is that the
rich don`t have enough.

And they have a solution. They`re going to take it from working
people and the poor and the disabled and the children, so the rich can have
more and then everything will be great.

SCHULTZ: OK. So I don`t know how Paul Ryan could do any media
interviews anywhere without being asked about the territorial tax. Because
this is new and it`s in the budget. It`s in what they voted on. And
obviously it`s something that could just hurt our economy and our treasury
even more.

David Cay Johnston, you`re the best. Thank you.

President Obama`s greatest economic achievement was really Mitt
Romney`s idea. Did you know that? That`s according to a top Romney
advisor. You can bet we`ll take a closer look at that next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: Welcome back to THE ED SHOW. The Romney campaign now says
President Obama`s greatest economic achievement was actually Mitt Romney`s
idea. Here is Romney advisor Eric Fehrnstrom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC FEHRNSTROM, ROMNEY ADVISER: The fact that the auto companies
today are profitable is because they have shed costs. The reason they shed
those costs and have got their employee -- labor contracts less expensive
is because they went through that managed bankruptcy process.

It`s exactly what Mitt Romney told them to do. So consider that, the
crown jewel, the only economic success that President Obama has had is
because he followed Mitt Romney`s advice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: Hold the phone here. You know what`s happening here. You
got Mitt Romney running from his own printed word. I seem to remember
Romney`s op-ed in the "New York Times" four years ago, "Let Detroit go
Bankrupt." Romney definitely did not support those auto loans during the
Republican debates.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Should they have used the
funds to bail out General Motors and Chrysler? No, that was the wrong
source for that funding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: It was the auto loans that made all the difference in the
world. President Obama signed off on billions in loans to the automobile
industry because he wasn`t going to stand by and let Detroit go bankrupt.
And it was not a popular decision at the time.

Now General Motors is number one until the world again. So it`s time
for Mitt Romney`s Etch a Sketch moment. The Romney advisor who says saving
the automobile industry was Romney`s idea is the same advisor that said
this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FEHRNSTROM: Well, I think you hit a reset button for the fall
campaign. Everything changes. It`s almost like an Etch a Sketch. You can
kind of shake it up and we start all over again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: but you can`t change the facts. Romney would have let
Detroit go bankrupt. It would have cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.

Up next, President Obama responds to his critics at the White House
Correspondents dinner. We have the jokes you won`t want to miss. Stay
tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCHULTZ: ED SHOW survey tonight, I asked who has done more to divide
the country over national security. Ninety five percent of you say the
Republicans; five percent of you say the Democrats.

Coming up, President Obama poked fun at himself and his Republican
opponents at Saturday night`s White House Correspondents Dinner. We`ll
bring you some of those highlights next.

Don`t forget to listen to my radio show. I`m on there, Sirius XM
Radio, Channel 127, Monday through Friday, from noon to 3:00 pm. Follow me
on Twitter @EdShow, and like THE ED SHOW on Facebook. We`re coming right
back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I know at this point many of you are expecting me to go after
my likely opponent, Newt Gingrich. Newt, there`s still time man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: President Obama at the White House Correspondents dinner on
Saturday night. I was there, enjoyed it. My wife and I enjoyed it. I
thought the president did a fantastic job, just poking fun at his
Republican rivals as well as himself. Stories about the candidates and
dogs have been part of the news cycle over the past few weeks.

Now we all know Mitt Romney strapped his dog to the roof of the car.
But in response, right wingers dug up an old detail from President Obama`s
memoir where the president recalled being served dog meat as a child
growing up in Indonesia.

President Obama had a little fun at Mitt Romney`s expense and hit back
at his own critics with a fake super PAC ad. Take a look. It`s a dandy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Of course, I know everybody`s predicting a nasty election.
And thankfully, we have all agreed that families are off limits. Dogs,
however, are apparently fair game.

And while both campaigns have had some fun with this, the other day I
saw a new ad from one of these outside groups that, frankly, I think
crossed the line. I know Governor Romney says he has no control over what
his super PACs do, but can we show the ad real quick?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back in 1983, you took your Irish Setter Seamus on
a 12 hour road trip tied to the roof of your car in a kennel.

ROMNEY: He climbed up there regularly, enjoyed himself. My guess is
he liked it a lot better in his kennel than he would have liked it inside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Finally, a candidate with the courage to fight for
a dog`s freedom to feel the wind in his fur. What about Barack Obama?
Under his failed leadership, man`s best friend has been forced into
government controlled automobiles.

Just imagine the European style dog socialism Obama has planned for
the next four years.

More government hand outs. A life of government dependency.
Indoctrinating our children, a left wing social agenda, leading from
behind.

(SINGING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America`s dogs can`t afford four more years of
Obama. For them, that`s 28 years. Our dogs need leadership now.

ROMNEY: Who let the dogs out? Who, who?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy. That`s why we need to join Mitt Romney
in sending a message this November. I`m an American, and dog gone it, I
ride outside.

Paid for by the Woofpac.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: That`s pretty rough, but I can take it. Because my stepfather
always told me it`s a boy eat dog world out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: The president also took on the right wingers` criticism of
his job as president. Conservatives are trying to hit the president on
likability. They say he`s too cool. Neocons, who lied about Iraq, say
that the president is week on foreign policy. Right wingers who don`t want
gays to openly serve in the military are attacking his ability to be
commander in chief.

Well, the president gave those critics a preview into what a second
term of President Obama would be like.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: If I do win a second term as president, let me just say
something to all the -- let me just say something to all my conspiracy
oriented friends on the right who think I`m planning to unleash some secret
agenda. You`re absolutely right.

So allow me to close with a quick preview of the secret agenda you can
expect in a second Obama administration. In my first term, I sang Al
Green. In my second term, I`m going with Young Jeezy. Michelle said yeah.
I sing that to her sometimes.

In my first term we ended the war in Iraq. In my second term I will
win the war on Christmas. In my first term we repealed the policy known as
Don`t Ask, Don`t Tell.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: Wait. In my second term, we will replace it as a policy known
as It`s Raining Men. In my first term we passed health care reform. In my
second term, I guess I`ll pass it again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHULTZ: That`s THE ED SHOW. I`m Ed Schultz. Thanks for joining us
tonight. "THE RACHEL MADDOW SHOW" starts right now. Good evening, Rachel.

Congratulations. Great job yesterday on "MEET THE PRESS."

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY
BE UPDATED.
END

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